SamEst meeting 15.12.2015

Participants: Heli, Jaska, Jaak, Heiki, Tiina, Trond, Sjur (late due to machine issues)


  • Status Estonian FST
  • Status Finnish FST
  • Status MT
  • Status Oahpa
  • Articles
  • Establishing subgroups

Status Estonian FST

Capital letters

Jaska pointed out some problems with capital letters langs/LANG/src/orthography/inituppercase.regex. Otherwise not much has happened.

In Heli's last e-mail(s) there were specific problems to address.

Priority union

Jaak is looking at hfst priority union, a feature needed (p. 300-307, esp. 306 in Beesley & Karttunen). When it does not work correctly, nothing works correctly for the est FST.. The words failing are among the most frequent words.

Either rewrite the morphology or correct the bug. The bug may be delegated. Which of the people from Helsinki should be the one to do?

Steps forward

There are a class of other errors: Double generation. Fin $GTLANG_est/devtools/find_parallels.sh


  • Lexical coverage (on running text, on frequency list)
  • Appropriate analysis for any given form
  • Distinguish between non-standard forms, standard parallel forms and preferred unique form Script to find double forms find_parallels

The way to solve it +Use/NG, +Err/Orth


Status Finnish FST

Script to find double forms: langs/est/devtools/find_parallels.sh

Status MT

FST issues

  • sme2fin - double forms in FST maiden/maitten, perhaps lacunas as well
  • fin2sme, fin2est - bad CG
    • missing disambiguation
    • too many double analyses (multiple POS tags) for the same form in the fin (and est) FST

Open questions

  • two entries & POS tags in FST, one in the bidix pair, what happens to the Apertium FST, it will get only the one POS tags.
  aina Adv
  aina Pcle

Translate verb categories correct and systematically.

CG issues

Three fsts:

  • GT/D fst (lookup2cg)
  • Apertium fst, not pruned by bidix (cg-conv)
  • Apertium fst, pruned by bidix (cg-conv)
echo tietokonealalla | hufin | cg-conv

Wanted to approach more systematically to the disambiguation of Finnish and use for that translated textbook, but don't know what is a good solution for compounds, which are regular, not exceptional (even for choosing for golden standard):

    "tuulinen" A Sg Nom <W:0>
        "hyvä" N Sg Gen Use/Hyphen <W:0>
    "tuulinen" A Sg Nom <W:0>
        "hyvä" N Sg Gen Use/NoHyphens <W:0>
    "hyväntuulinen" A Sg Nom <W:0>

    "ala" N Sg Ade <W:0>
        "kone" N Sg Nom Use/Hyphen <W:0>
            "tieto" N Sg Nom Use/Hyphen <W:0>
    "ala" N Sg Ade <W:0>
        "kone" N Sg Nom Use/NoHyphens <W:0>
            "tieto" N Sg Nom Use/Hyphen <W:0>
    "ala" N Sg Ade <W:0>
        "kone" N Sg Nom Use/NoHyphens <W:0>
            "tieto" N Sg Nom Use/NoHyphens <W:0>
    "ala" N Sg Ade <W:0>
        "tietokone" N Sg Nom Use/Hyphen <W:0>
    "ala" N Sg Ade <W:0>
        "tietokone" N Sg Nom Use/NoHyphens <W:0>


     echo tietokonealalla | '$HLOOKUP $GTHOME/langs/fin/src/analyser-gt-desc.hfstol | cg-conv
        "tieto+n+sg+nom+use/hyphen#kone+n+sg+nom+use/hyphen#ala+n+sg+ade" <mixed-upper>
        "tieto+n+sg+nom+use/hyphen#kone+n+sg+nom+use/nohyphens#ala+n+sg+ade" <mixed-upper>
        "tieto+n+sg+nom+use/nohyphens#kone+n+sg+nom+use/hyphen#ala+n+sg+ade" <mixed-upper>
        "tieto+n+sg+nom+use/nohyphens#kone+n+sg+nom+use/nohyphens#ala+n+sg+ade" <mixed-upper>
        "tietokone+n+sg+nom+use/hyphen#ala+n+sg+ade" <mixed-upper>
        "tietokone+n+sg+nom+use/nohyphens#ala+n+sg+ade" <mixed-upper>

All in same form but cannot predict which of them would be better for MT.

Conclusion for Trond: for MT purposes I have to use for CG input that is parsed already with apertium fst, otherwise there wil be more choices in input. But: bidix will be constantly changing and thus the apertium fst! Luckily, most bidix changes are augmentative.

Conclusion: 2 golden standards!

Gold corpus so far: The story text A textbook (problems: Tag issues) Convert


  • Look at tag/format issues for the gold corpus (Tiina, Fran/Kevin)
  • Two golden corpora (?)

Status Oahpa

Improvement in Morfa-C

  • no more repeating exercises within the same set

Point to use for all Oahpas: no more repeating exercises within the same set

Student modeling: Keep track of input for Leksa to students.

Improvements in the user interface

  • localisation to Estonian, Finnish, Russian (not ready yet)
  • book chapters added under the "book" choice in Leksa and Morfa-S (atm it is only working in Leksa)


  • Heli to write to Oahpa teams on the no more repeating issue
  • Heli to write sketch on plan for student modeling for Leksa

Võru Oahpa

  • Work on semantic sets underway.
  • Work on completing the FST.


(to be looked at during forthcoming meetings)

  • Monitor the "before" (implementation) articles
  • Move article topics from "after" to "before"

The "before" articles

Contrastive/comparative tag/grammar article

Heiki-Jaan, Trond, Lene, Fran, ...

Heiki-Jaan has rewritten the tag conversion fin-est. This is, in a way, an implementation of this article.


  1. Comment the transfer rules:
    1. incubator/apertium-fin-est.fin-est.t1x
    2. apertium-sme-fin.fin-sme.t1x (...)
    3. apertium-sme-fin.sme-fin.t1x (...)
  2. Start drafting an article

Look at this, and mail between each other.

echo 'olisin' | apertium -d . fin-est

Article before spellchecker is out?

Relevant for Võru


  • Look at this idea (Note: the deadline of the forthcoming speller)

The "after" articles

The usual MT articles

finest: Comparing SMT (Google), SMT (Europarl), RBMT (Apertium), GF?

Time frame: Do this when these things are solved:

  • technical problems related to tags
  • CG harmonising
  • Some MT work:
    • A reasonable bidix
    • some work on lexical selection (.lrx) and
    • transfer (.t?x) files

Goal: Look for a deadline before summer.

Then, for the article:

Looking not at BLEU/WER, but at robustness: What can you trust, on what grounds (the kissa - koer - example)

  • Marilla on kissa, hänellä ei ole koiraa.
  • Google : Marilla on kass , ta ei ole koera .
  • Apertium (old) Maril on kass, tal ei ole koera.

Establishing subgroups

  • Oahpa: As today
  • Võru: As today
  • CG: Tiina, Trond, Lene, Fran to discuss
  • MT: fin2X, X2fin: Heiki, Trond, Fran, Tiina,
  • Infra: Sjur, Fran, ...

Next meeting

5.1.2016 10.00 Estonian time / 9.00 Norwegian time