SamEst meeting 08.10.2015

Participants: Fran, Heiki, Heli, Jaak, Jack, Kadri, Sjur, Tiina, Trond


  1. What we had planned. (Heli finds the table.)
  2. What we have done. (The status of each subproject.)
  3. What are the next todo-s.

What we had planned

The updated project plan from 30.09.2014 (meeting in Tartu)

Task 2014 2015 2016 Persons
Est + fin FST 3 2 2 Jaak, Heli, Heiki, Trond, etc.
Võro FST 3 3 3 Sulev
CG 0 2 2 Tiina, Kadri
Oahpa L,N,M 4 3 1 Heli, teachers
Oahpa V, S 0 2 3 Heli, teachers
MT fin-est 0 2 2 -
f-e lex. proof. 1 1 0 TBD
MT fin-sme 1 1 1 Same team as fin-est
MT fin CG 0 3 0 -
Total 12 19 14 45+

Notes from that meeting: /lang/est/meetings/140930.html

Est + fin FST

Jaak has moved, but is now settled and can work more efficiently. There could have been more fst-input from the est Oahpa, that will now come.

The tools from Filosoft are now public, we should consider the Filosoft dict as an alternative to the ÜV one.

Heiki has had trouble with hfst, but cannot be really concrete at the moment... will ask Jaak and/or Sjur

e.g. 1/2-finaal
12-finaal        12-finaal        +?
123-finaal        123-finaal        +?

Yaml results as of today:

  • SUMMARY for the gt-norm fst(s): PASSES: 4538 / FAILS: 2448 / TOTAL: 6986

Missing Noun lemmas



  • Heli, Tiina and Heiki will send feedback to Jaak.
  • This will help.

Võro FST

Yaml results as of today:

  • SUMMARY for the gt-desc fst(s): PASSES: 102 / FAILS: 235 / TOTAL: 337

Jack has worked with vowel harmony. Issue: Which form is the primary form. Oahpa Morfa: There are several correct answers but one of them is the preferred one. This is implemented in vro.fst with the help of +Use/NG tag that has been added to the non-preferred forms. In one of the built FSTs the +Use/NG forms are present and in another they are missing. This works in Oahpa.

Verbs: Here there are weaknesses.

The Võro group (Sulev, Jack, Heli) is having regular meetings every 2-3 weeks where they discuss the progress and set intermediate goals.



est.cg is converted to Giellatekno version, and works well.


How to add (in)transitiveness to verbs?

  1. Separate steps after fst
  2. Tartu approach: transitivity-adding.fst .o. est.fst
  3. Tromsø approach: add in lexicon
    1. (task: script in from separate list to stems/verbs.lexc)
    2. 30 verb types
      1. will give 60 lexica and not 30
      2. V1_TV ; V1_IV ; // LE V1_TV +V+TV V1 ; LE V1_IV +V+IV V1 ; LE V1 ... ;
      3. may be put on the stem
  4. langs/ipk approach (Iñupiaq): Flag diacrit
    1. stem iv/tv FLAG // lots of derivation // two sets of infl affixes (modulo FLAG)
    2. Flags since we did not want to duplicate lots of derivation
olla+V+IV:ol V_OLLA ; !
olla+IV:ola V_OLLA ; ! will need tag-reshuffeling.fst

est.fst .o. tag-reshuffeling.fst

TODO: Jaak and Tiina to discuss and Jaak to implement.

Finnish cg

  • fin/src/syntax/disambiguation.cg3
  • fin/src/syntax/function.cg3

Tiina has converted cg1 to cg3 (corrected the former conversion).

The cg used tags from old fst that were not in the new fst. As far as these tags were present in the texts used for testing, the mismatches have been solved.

Gold standard corpus improvement:

  1. Work ourselves
  2. Take the Helsinki-Turku treebank, which uses omorfi tags

One possibility

  1. Take text from the treebank corpus
    1. url: http://bionlp.utu.fi/fintreebank-datafiles.html
  2. Analyse with our analyser
  3. Disambiguate by means of the treebank (with a script)


  • Tartu: Take corpus + analyse + have a look
  • Tartu + Fran: Adjust script and voilá.

This is the treebank (180k words):

# f301/46
1    Viisainta    viisas    _    A    A    NUM_Sg|CASE_Par|CMP_Superl|CASECHANGE_Up    0    ROOT    _    _
2    on    olla    _    V    V    PRS_Sg3|VOICE_Act|TENSE_Prs|MOOD_Ind    1    cop    _    _
3    piilottaa    piilottaa    _    V    V    NUM_Sg|CASE_Lat|VOICE_Act|INF_Inf1    1    iccomp    _    _
4    pillerit    pilleri    _    N    N    NUM_Pl|CASE_Nom    3    dobj    _    _
5    takaisin    takaisin    _    Adv    Adv    _    7    advmod    _    _
6    lääkekaapin    lääke|kaappi    _    N    N    NUM_Sg|CASE_Gen    7    poss    _    _
7    perille    perä    _    N    N    NUM_Pl|CASE_All    3    nommod    _    _
8    .    .    _    Punct    Punct    _    1    punct    _    _

STrategy: Use this to disambiguate

We have compiled a parallel corpus of textbook texts (12000 words)

One possibility:

  • Analyse the fin part of the parallel corpus + disambiguate + correct manually
  • In that case, we will get a gold standard of parallel text


  • Analyse + disambiguate
  • Have students correct

Oahpa Leksa, Numra, Morfa

Leksa has got a new language, Swedish. Heli has talked to teachers and await feedback. Teachers were most interested in Leksa, also in Leksa for Estonian L1 wanting to learn Swedish.

For Swedish-speaking students of Estonian, they are on different levels, and are interested in using Oahpa for differentiating the teaching.

Morfa-C now tests for nouns, in q/a pairs. Heli has manually corrected/deleted forms from the MySQL database. The tag +Use/NG ?

Unfortunately we removed the separate tag for short illative. Get it back? Discussion with Jaak.

Todo: Heli sends the errors discovered during setting up Morfa-C to Jaak. Heli, Jaak Introduce +Use/NG tag for marking the non-preferred forms? Heli works on verbs in Morfa-S and Morfa-C. All - Feedback to the developer is welcome.

Oahpa Vasta, Sahka


Heli has started with Vasta-S (the words are given in base form). The system generates q/a but does not check answers yet. Tiina has worked on the CG rules for this, and next step is implementation.

Tiina: could we have the correct answer given? Yes, for Vasta-S is possible and Heli has implemented the generation of correct answers based on similar templates as Vasta questions and answers.

TODO: Heli continues working on the implementation.


... will come next.


requires coopertation with teachers. Building dialogues is not too easy.

Võru Oahpa

  • Leksa is ok
  • Morfa-S is ok (N, V)
    • N almost ok, but problems for V
  • Morfa-C: a couple of sentences, some work on semantic sets needs to be done.
  • Numra works well

No disambiguation, hence no Sahka, Vasta.

MT fin-est

Some commits from Tiina - new dictionary entries, converted est and fin morph. disambiguation rules to apertium format, some transfer rules, for ex for translating finnish possessive suffixes.

fin-est lex. proof.

$ echo "Viisainta on piilottaa pillerit takaisin lääkekaapin perille ." | apertium -d . fin-est-debug
Tarkimat on *piilottaa *pillerit kamin issi ravim kapa päradele/pärile .

Appr 17000 entries (pilleri is missing), Europarl-heavy.

For the moment we are more concerned about other aspects of the MT system. Rising 17000 to 34000 will then come later.

There is no ban, though. If you have a bilingual list, please add it.

MT fin-sme

The folder exists, with a bidix of appr 7000 entries. Technically, fin-sme is up to date.

$ echo "Viisainta on piilottaa pillerit takaisin lääkekaapin perille ." | apertium -d . fin-sme
*Viisainta #leat #čiehkat *pillerit ruovttoluotta dálkkas skábe #rádjái #.

Tromsø to look at the sme side of this.

MT fin CG

Convert the tags. This is done.


Forthcoming in 3 weeks, and will be very nice.

Course web site: It will be up in a few days.


Before that meeting:

  • fst
    • technicalities + progress on the lexicon
    • get rid of duplicate forms
    • easy linguistic issues fixed and hard ones listed
  • oahpa-est
    • select preferred forms (relevant for duplicate)
    • set up Morfa-S verbs + Vasta-S
  • oahpa-vro
    • the process is running, next milestone will be verbs
    • also check nouns
  • cg
    • treebank goldcorpus: A month of scripting?
      • Until next meeting: Having started + having a clearer picture
    • textbook goldcorpus:
      • create initial annotation setup
      • Students started and a substantial part done.
  • mt
    • Prepare the course
    • Put parallel corpus in svn (Fran)
    • fin-est:
      • topic for a whole course + all kinds of things
    • fin-sme:
      • expand the bidix
      • Look at tag mismatches

Next meeting

  • 17.11. 09.00 Swedish time, 10.00 Estonian time