Meeting_2005-11-28

Meeting setup

Date: 28.11.2005
Time: 09.30 Norw. time
Place: Wherever we are : -)
Tools: iChat, SubEthaEdit, phone

Agenda

Opening, agenda review
Reviewing the task list from two weeks ago
Documentation - divvun.no
Corpus gathering
Corpus infrastructure
Linguistics
name lexicon infrastructure
Other issues
1. speech synthesis
  1. Things happening within SD
  2. the UiT NFR application
2. Proofing article: deadline Dec. 5.
Summary, task lists
Closing

1. Opening, agenda review, participants

Opened at 09: 56.

Present: Børre, Maaren, Saara, Sjur, Thomas, Tomi, Trond

Absent: none

Main secretary: Sjur

Agenda accepted with some additions, and replaced speller infra with proper name lexicon infra.

2. Reviewing the task list from the last meeting

Børre

Contact oahpahusossodat about texts
- Not done
Gather public texts
- Gathered laws and some websites
Continue converting text from input format to our xml
- Done, found some bugs in convert2xml.pl
Document the corpus directory structure
- Some done
Ask Thor-Øivind to move bugzilla to our new webserver
- He is on vacation untill the 28th.
install new XXE and the new XXE Forrest config for all (or check that it is installed and working)
- Done, except Ilona.
mark-up names
- Not done
divvun.no and giellatekno.uit.no
- Binary files download area
  - Not done
- Make the conversion to static site, using our own script.
  - Done some work on that, working on the script
hyphenation in corpus docs
- Not done
corpus xsl files under version control
- Not done
register AppleCare
- Done for Børre, Duommá and Tomi

Maaren

shall work with Sámi place names only
- done
update the last issue in the North Sámi normativity issues document
- done
register AppleCare
- not done

Saara

Look at the corpus infrastructure issue
Look at the corpus interface issue with Lars
look into efficient editing of the xml proper name lexicon (tools, modes, etc)
- not done (the kvensk place name issue)
Convert the name lexicon from present format to xml
- not done
document corpus infrastructure, your own parts
- done
Look at the hyphenation issue
- updating preprocess script according to the spec in previous meeting
Update the corpus.dtd
- done
corpus xsl files under version control
- started discussion in the newsgroups
make preprocess and lookup2cg faster
- lookup2cg ready

Sjur

Lule Sámi twol problems, look again at the sets definition with Thomas and Trond
- nothing
risten.no bugs and fixes
- risten.no has crashed. Took most of Thursday and Friday, still not back.
follow up on voice group-chat not working to Sámediggi
- Test Marratech
  - internal URL is now working (got an updated URL), I'm waiting for the external URL. The first test with myself indicate that the video quality is far inferiour compared to iChat. But most imprortant is sound quality - we'll see.
project planning with Trond, continued
- also look at the development processes - specification and testing
  - nothing
Follow up on place names from Norge Digitalt
- write an e-mail to or call Bjørn Olav Megard
  - wrote to him, nothing more due to the risten.no crash
Evaluate SFST as speller (and analyzer) lexicon
- more thorough analysis than was possible in Guovdageaidnu
  - nothing
write a background document on the corpus contracts
- nothing
discuss kvensk project support with Trond
- not with Trond, but spoke with Hallgeir Varsi, and wrote to the newsgroup. The kvensk integration requires some rethinking of parts of the name lexicon, which was briefly started in the newsgroup.
proper name integration with risten.no
- part of general work with risten.no
discuss risten.no work with Tomi
- done
write public tender documents
- nothing
hyphenation in corpus docs
- nothing
buy:
- new computer (project server)?
  - not done yet. If we do it, the invoice should be at SD before Dec. 15.
register AppleCare
- done.
other:
- bureaucrazy: travel invoices, other invoices.

Thomas

work on North sámi compounding and derivation
- finished with second-syllable deletion in compounding
Look at Linguistic bugs with Trond
Continue to meet with Sjur and Trond about and work with the definition of G1, G2, G3
- no meeting or bug-fixing this week
update the lule sámi normativity issues document about incorporation of loan words
- done
register AppleCare
- asked Børre to do it for me

Tomi

Aspell: Continue working on the affix file & aspell
- Contact aspell author (UTF-8 thing)
  - Not done
three-part compounding
- Not done.
corpus infrastructure: dtd location (both public and internal)
- Not done
Document aspell and corpus infrastructure
- Not done this week
Specification for new catxml in C++
- this includes also placing the source and binary
  - Not done
start looking at conversion of the name lexicon from present format to xml
- Not done
Look into synchronisation of proper names with risten.no
- Modified risten.no to accept multiple collections
  - so far, this is only done for searching, not editing, true? Editing is not checked in yet.
hyphenation in corpus docs
- Not done
corpus xsl files under version control
- Not done
add automatic language detection to the corpus processing
- Not done
register AppleCare
- Børre did? Jipps: -). Done.
Other:
- Done some work with risten.no

Trond

update the contracts with changes from the university lawyer
- Done
Look into the document hyphenation issue
- Not done.
Look at the three-part compound issue
- Worked on this issue with Thomas
Work on the CG-related bugs on the bug list (7 open) (numeral related ones postponed).
- Still 7 open
project planning with Sjur, continued
- also look at the development processes - specification and testing
The name project
- Work on the name project, mark up names (100 names left)
  - All names now marked
discuss kvensk project support with Sjur
- Not done.
Work on the G3 bug issue with Sjur and Thomas, carry it over to sme.
- Progress made at smj, still not sme.
Other:
- Disamb with Linda
- Corpus conversion & format with Børre.

3. Documentation

Documentation tasks:

Add documentation on our corpus infrastructure and our corpus work in general ( Børre, Tomi, Trond, Saara):

The directory structure is now settled (as of last meeting), and should be documented.

For the basic corpora, we need 2 additional types of documentation, or doc for 2 target groups:

For the users/linguists: What corpus are found, how do I use them (this info is now scattered) (Part of the HOTWO USE is documented in the catxml docu The what documents are found where etc + an overall documentation is not written, since the corpus is so sparsely populated)
For the collectors: How do I add texts, where do I add them, how do I convert them (this is (partly?) done in the Corpus Conversion document)

test:

add/update Aspell documentation (Tomi)
- Some documentation has been written, but there still is work to be done.
as always: document what you're doing: -) (all)

Tomcat->static HTML progress

Now, all pages are generated directly from XML by Forrest within Tomcat. We'll change to let Forrest pre-generate the HTML (and pdf), and serve these ready-made files directly.

4. Corpus gathering

All the available law texts are downloaded from Odin, with (most of?) their corresponding Norwegian originals.

All available texts from NSI's web site have been downloaded.

The texts are now in our corpus repository, but not converted to the corpus format. Some bugs relating to this process have been posted to Bugzilla.

http://troms.kulturnett.no/bibliotek/samisk/samisk_materiale.htm
Sámi legal text on the net
- We need all these texts
  - done
- We need to survey the site in the future
  - new translations under way
- We need the Norwegian versions as well
  - done

Contracts

Update: All SD versions now synchronised with the templates. Trond met with the lawyer, and she commented the updated versions. Trond has updated the contracts.

Next step:

Make our versions of the updated Helsinki contracts, and make sure they are according to our intention. (Sjur and Trond)
send them to the SD lawyer and to the University lawyer through formal channels. (Sjur and Trond)

Contract 1 should have the main priority.

5. Corpus infrastructure

Updated task list:

Include the xsl files under version control (Børre, Tomi, Saara)

Incorporate language detection as part of the corpus processing (Tomi)
1. Tomi will start, but possibly hand it over to Saara if it takes too much time (Tomi will have to prioritize the name lexicon/risten.no)
we need a way to deal with hyphenated documents (documents with (manually) inserted hyphenation marks) in catxml/preprocess. ( Tomi, Børre, (discussion in the newsgroup: ) Sjur, Trond, Saara)
1. Discuss details in the newsgroup
  1. What needs to be discussed now is the conditions for the difference between the second and third last points below.
2. in normal cases hyphenation points should be removed
  1. Done by Saara in preprocess. It is possible to turn it back to a regular hyphen with a flag.
3. when testing the robustness of our parsers, as well as when testing the hyphenator, the hyphenation points should be retained:
  1. This is true for examples like "eala-<CR>hus", they should be converted to something like: "eala<hyph/>hus", in order to both keep the hyphenation information when needed, and get it out of the way when not.
  2. In cases of truncated compounds like "ealahus-<CR> ja ...", we want the hyphen to stay untouched, and be part of the linguistic processing.
  3. There are sporadically text books with explicit hyphenation points, like: ea-la-hus. In these documents, all hyphens, without exception, should be converted to <hyph/>.

6. Linguistics

Name lexicon

Summary: see the newsgroup

The plan for this project was as follows: Two lines of work run in parallel:

name markup
1. Done! There are errors in the markup, people are urged to correct them as they pop up.

Complex names

Task list for this issue:

Restoring two-part names
- done, common/src/proper-complex.xml
find eventual unique second-parts (B-parts of names that do not exist in isolation): Take the 1.126 version, remove the non-last parts, and compare the B-parts of proper-complex.xml with the simplex forms in 1.126. Non-hits should then be removed from the current propernoun-sme-lex.txt.
- Postponed till next week
remove these B-parts from the ordinary name file (Tomi)
make sure xml2lexc can handle complex names in ways compatible with our present tool chain (=reconstruct the lexc format we have now) (Saara)
the resulting file format should be identical to our present prop-name file (=lexc), that can then be converted to our new xml format using the same script as for the regular names (Tomi or Saara, but only when the technical details are settled)
The core issue: The preprocess script can handle (A + B) compounds, but not (A + inflected B).

North Sámi

three-part compounds issue still open
- look at Lule Sámi, but apply it to second-parts only
  - Thomas is finished with three-part compounds for North Sámi. On the negative side, we note a compilation time of 10m for the sme parser as a whole.
- the exact rules for when shortening happens should be documented (Maaren will send the normativity decisions to Thomas)
- descriptive facts from our corpus (Trond, Thomas) added to the normative issues document
- linguistic analysis/discussion to continue in the newsgroup
- we should include the members-to-be of the Sámi Giellalávdegoddi (SGL) in this discussion, but how? We need a common meeting / normativity seminar / seminar on proofing issues and on language technology in a broader sense with them. Then we also need to open the linguistic issues newsgroup we talked about earlier, and set up their computers and teach them to use the newsgroup. This seminar needs to include the Lule Sámi section of SGL (others are welcome too). Timetable:
  - The Sámediggiráddi is going to appoint new members before Christmas ( Johan Mikkel Saara is asking people)
  - Contact the SGL when it is elected, in December, and ask them to arrange a normativity seminar, with invited keypersons.
  - seminar in February?
- TODO list:
  - Maaren to discuss with relevant persons on this issue.
number project still open (see below)
diphthong simplification/G3 issue should be carried over from Lule Sámi.
- TODO:
  - Settling the empirical facts for sme (Thomas)
  - Writing the rules (copy from smj, adjust)(Sjur, Thomas and Trond, next week)

Lule Sámi

Great progress has been made on the G3 issue, just some minor points remain. oa: å has been carried over to ä: e

Open tasks:

Derived G3 that looks like G2 are still open.
- Thomas, Trond and Sjur meet shortly after Dec. 5th to finish the rest.

Today's compilation time:

real 5m17.157s user 3m26.827s sys 0m5.070s

Numerals

The following North Sámi linguistic issues should be settled before going into the numeral project:

Three-part compounds
Diphthong simplification
Derivation

These issues are recently done in Lule Sámi, and it is more efficient to complete them in North Sámi directly thereafter instead of beginning a new topic

Numeral treatment is on different level in the existing sme and smj parsers, but the issue itself is common to the two langauges, and should therefore be treated in parallel.

Numerals in North Sámi: Inventory is listed elsewhere.

Numerals in Lule Sámi: There are 70 lines of code setting up the structure for case inflection of basic numerals.

7. Name lexicon infrastructure

The kvensk place name lexicon have their own info needs:

Linguistic info
 1. oppslagsform, headword
 2. bøyningsform, inflection
 3. kode for bøyningsform
 4. evt. grenser mellom navneledd og –element, boundaries of the word component
    and name element(s)
15. kvensk(e) navnevariant(er)
16. samisk parallellnavn
17. norsk parallellnavn
18. beslekta navn, relating toponyms, vertailunimi(-nimet)
24. etymologi

Geographical/location info:
 5. type sted, type of place, paikanlaji
 6. kode for navntype, iflg. SSR
 7. gnr., bnr.
+
10. kommune
11. fylke
14. koordinat

Legal info:
 8. status etter Lov om stadnamn
 9. vedtaksmyndighet etter Lov om stadnamn

Source info:
19. informantforklaringer
20. informant(er)
21. innsamler(e), årstall
22. arkiv
23. litteratur, kilder

Unclassified:
12. kartprodukt
13. kartblad
25. pilhenvisning, nuoliviite, til annen artikkel
26. lydfil
27. bilde(r), illustrasjone(r)
28. andre kommentarer, “sekkepost”

Present proposal:

name-oriented, single document:
- one name with many uses stored only once

Present risten.no:

Concept-oriented center, contains:
- ID, links to each language entry
each language as a separate document, with links to the concept/entity in the cross-lingual center

Possible new propsal 1: as risten.no

Possible new proposal 2: separate documents:

Containing one common concept or name id field, plus Divvun/Disamb fields only
Containing one common concept or name id field, plus kvensk fields only
common document containing one common id field, plus fields common to several bases

Porsanger both person and place Porsáŋgu only as place name, not as person name.

5 lgs give 10 Trosterud, 5 Timbuktu, it would be better to have 2 Trosterud and 1 Timbuktu, but 15 contlexica for these three concepts.

Discussion to continue in the newsgroup.

Tasks:

testing of conversion
continue the discussion of the name lexicon format ( Saara, Tomi, Sjur, Trond)
implement a prototype in eXist
eXist as editor:
1. develop the needed XQueries and interface
2. synchronisation between risten.no and
3. test whether eXist as editor is actually working well

8. Other

speech synthesis

Things happening within SD

The Davvi girji plan: Have a person read in tapes of the whole dictionary
The ODIN edt. wants to add speech synthesis to their web pages (for disabled people), and they are asking a Capella to find out what it takes for Sámi speech synthesis

the UiT NFR application

Application for international cooperation to NFR, Deadline Dec. 1. Preproject deadline

Both Divvun and Disamb milieus see this as an important development path, and we will participate in the different planning processes. We aim at sending in an application to NFR at Dec. 1.

Proofing article:deadline Dec. 5.

We go for it - 2 pages.

"The official versions should be prepared according to the technical requirements of Springer LNCS series. You are kindly asked to consult our detailed instructions at the location http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/events/FSMNLP2005/instructions-official.html."

( Trond, Sjur and Tomi)

Technical issues

The mac os / perl bug (at least Trond and Sjur has it):
- utf8 "\xC4" does not map to Unicode at /Users/trond/gt/script/preprocess line 82. This msg did not show up in 10.3 (perl 5.8.1), but does so in 10.4 (perl 5.8.6). It is probably a perl - OS mismatch. (Trond, Thor Øivind, Tomi)
  - Trond has filed a bug report on this (#211), and discussed with Thor-Øivind, there is progress (Saara has commented), but the issue is complicated.

Video conferencing across firewalls

We're still waiting for a working URL (working from outside SD, that is).

Bug fixing

24 open bugs (and 24 risten.no bugs)

Move Bugzilla

Move Bugzilla to the same server as the other ones (or make it work at the expected URL: http: //giellatekno.uit.no/bugzilla/).

TODO, TODO. Thor Øivind.

risten.no

Risten.no crashed badly last week, with no traces of what happened. Tomi and Sjur are working on restoring it, with all data and updated eXist version.

Tomi will then continue the proper name work.

AppleCare extended warranty

Only Maaren still to register it, will do it today.

Rugsacks

Not delivered yet! Sjur will investigate.

9. Summary, task list