Meeting_2005-12-05

Meeting setup

Date: 05.12.2005
Time: 09.30 Norw. time
Place: Wherever we are : -)
Tools: iChat, SubEthaEdit, phone

Agenda

Opening, agenda review
Reviewing the task list from two weeks ago
Documentation - divvun.no
Corpus gathering
Corpus infrastructure
Linguistics
name lexicon infrastructure
Other issues
Summary, task lists
Closing

1. Opening, agenda review, participants

Opened at 09: 48.

Present: Børre (after 15 min), Saara, Sjur, Thomas (only a few minutes), Tomi

Absent: Maaren, Trond

Main secretary: Sjur

Agenda accepted as is.

2. Reviewing the task list from the last meeting

Børre

Gather public texts
Continue converting text from input format to our xml
Document the corpus directory structure
Ask Thor Øivind to move bugzilla to our new webserver
- ... or make the URL http://giellatekno.uit.no/bugzilla point to the present installation
install new XXE and the new XXE Forrest config for Ilona
divvun.no and giellatekno.uit.no
- Binary files download area
- Continue the conversion to static site, using our own script.
corpus xsl files under version control

Maaren

working with risten.no
register AppleCare
- Børre did it.
find decisisons/documents regarding syllable shortening in compounds in the norm; send them to Thomas

Saara

Look at the corpus infrastructure issue
Look at the corpus interface issue with Lars
look into efficient editing of the xml proper name lexicon (tools, modes, etc)
Convert the name lexicon from present format to xml
- not done
Look at the hyphenation issue
- implemented in preprocess, see documentation
corpus xsl files under version control
- discussion going on
Make preprocess faster
- preprocess is now as fast as possible with Perl implementation. Now I am considering also other tools.

Sjur

Lule Sámi twol problems, look again at the sets definition with Thomas and Trond
- nothing
risten.no bugs and fixes
- recovered the lost data after the crash, prepared a new install, but were unable to install it due to network problems at SD
follow up on voice group-chat not working to Sámediggi
- Test Marratech
  - no URL yet
project planning with Trond, continued
- also look at the development processes - specification and testing
- nothing
Follow up on place names from Norge Digitalt
- write an e-mail to or call Bjørn Olav Megard
  - he had forgotten about it.
Evaluate SFST as speller (and analyzer) lexicon
- more thorough analysis than was possible in Guovdageaidnu
- nothing
write a background document on the corpus contracts
- nothing
discuss kvensk project support with Trond
- nothing
proper name integration with risten.no
- nothing
discuss risten.no work with Tomi
- continued
write public tender documents
- nothing
hyphenation in corpus docs
- nothing
buy:
- new computer (project server)?
- nothing
Work on the Speech Application (Dec. 1)
- done
Work on the proofing article (Dec. 5.)
- done
Investigate the never-arriving backpacks
- done

Thomas

work on North sámi compounding and derivation
- worked and still working
Settle the empirical facts for sme diphthong simpl.
- done
add descriptive facts about shortened forms in compounding from our corpus to the normativity issues document
- done

Tomi

Aspell: Continue working on the affix file & aspell
- Contact aspell author (UTF-8 thing)
  - Not done
three-part compounding
- Not done -> transferred to Thomas, Trond and Sjur
corpus infrastructure: dtd location (both public and internal)
- Not done
Document aspell and corpus infrastructure
- Nothing done
Specification for new catxml in C++
- this includes also placing the source and binary
  - Not done
discuss about xml-processing with Saara
start looking at conversion of the name lexicon from present format to xml
- Looked a bit
Look into synchronisation of proper names with risten.no
- Not done
hyphenation in corpus docs
- Not done
corpus xsl files under version control
- Not done
add automatic language detection to the corpus processing
- Looked at the language detection documentation
Work on the proofing article (Dec. 5.)
- Done
remove last part of complex names not used as simplex names
- Not done

Trond

Look at the three-part compound issue
Work on the CG-related bugs on the bug list (7 open) (numeral related ones postponed.
project planning with Sjur, continued
discuss kvensk project support with Sjur
Work on the G3 bug issue with Sjur and Thomas, carry it over to sme.
Working on the Speech Application (Dec. 1)
Working on the proofing article (Dec. 5.)

3. Documentation

Documentation tasks:

Add documentation on our corpus infrastructure and our corpus work in general ( Børre, Tomi, Trond, Saara). For the basic corpora, we need 2 additional types of documentation, or doc for 2 target groups:

For the users/linguists: What corpus are found, how do I use them (this info is now scattered) (Part of the HOWTO USE is documented in the catxml docu The what documents are found where etc + an overall documentation is not written, since the corpus is so sparsely populated)
1. catxml done, which is what is needed mostly. Do we need more?
2. we need a review: Thomas, Maaren, Linda, Ilona, Trond
For the collectors: How do I add texts, where do I add them, how do I convert them (this is (partly?) done in the Corpus Conversion document)
1. we need a review of the web interface for corpus uploading - what is still missing?
  1. Review: Sjur, Saara, Trond, Thomas

Review setup and reporting to be posted to the newsgroup, possibly a summary in our documentation. Saara to make a review template, to be posted in the newsgroup and commented before the actual review is started.

Deadline for comments and final template: by next meeting.

test:

add/update Aspell documentation (Tomi)
- Some documentation has been written, but there still is work to be done.
as always: document what you're doing: -) (all)

Tomcat->static HTML progress

Now, all pages are generated directly from XML by Forrest within Tomcat. We'll change to let Forrest pre-generate the HTML (and pdf), and serve these ready-made files directly.

Deadline: Finished by this week.

4. Corpus gathering

The Lule Sámi New Testament is ready for inclusion in our repository and will be added today. We then have our first Lule Sámi corpus text!

Contracts

Next step:

Make our versions of the updated Helsinki contracts, and make sure they are according to our intention. (Sjur and Trond)
send them to the SD lawyer and to the University lawyer through formal channels. (Sjur and Trond)

Contract 1 should have the main priority (contract 2 for Trond).

5. Corpus infrastructure

Updated task list:

Include the xsl files under version control (Børre, Tomi, Saara)
1. Saara has started a dicsussion in the newsgroup - please follow up!
  1. we can start using RCS right away, and we do so. The main users should be comfortable with two version control systems, and it is (relatively) easy to upgrade to CVS later, if we want that.
Incorporate language detection as part of the corpus processing (Saara)
we need a way to deal with hyphenated documents (documents with (manually) inserted hyphenation marks) in catxml/preprocess.
1. What needs to be identified now is the conditions for the difference between "ealahus-<CR> ja ..." and "ea-la-hus-os-so-dat". The result should be: "ealahus- ja ..." and "ea<hyph/>la<hyph/>hus<hyph/>os<hyph/>so<hyph/>dat". Only hyphens as part of text should be tagged (that is, used to hyphenate a word at the end of a line, or to indicate syllabification for such hyphenation), hyphens in dates and other numeric expressions should be left as is.
  1. identify all cases of the first type, and replace all hyphens NOT in this set with the <hyph/> tag (Saara).
  2. we need to review whether only automatic hyphen detection is good enough, or whether manual post-processing in some form is needed. Delayed until we have some results to base the review on.
  3. Acceptable results: 90% of all real hyphens correctly tagged.

6. Linguistics

Name lexicon

Summary: see the newsgroup

The plan for this project was as follows: Two lines of work run in parallel:

name markup
1. Done! There are errors in the markup, people are urged to correct them as they pop up.

Complex names

Task list for this issue:

Restoring two-part names
- done, common/src/proper-complex.xml
find eventual unique second-parts (B-parts of names that do not exist in isolation): Take the 1.126 version, remove the non-last parts, and compare the B-parts of proper-complex.xml with the simplex forms in 1.126. Non-hits should then be removed from the current propernoun-sme-lex.txt.
- Postponed till next week
remove these B-parts from the ordinary name file (Tomi)
make sure xml2lexc can handle complex names in ways compatible with our present tool chain (=reconstruct the lexc format we have now) (Saara)
the resulting file format should be identical to our present prop-name file (=lexc), that can then be converted to our new xml format using the same script as for the regular names (Tomi or Saara, but only when the technical details are settled)
The core issue: The preprocess script can handle (A + B) compounds, but not (A + inflected B).

North Sámi

three-part compounds issue still open
- look at Lule Sámi, but apply it to second-parts only
  - Thomas is finished with three-part compounds for North Sámi. On the negative side, we note a compilation time of 10m for the sme parser as a whole.
- the exact rules for when shortening happens should be documented (Maaren will send the normativity decisions to Thomas)
- linguistic analysis/discussion to continue in the newsgroup
- we should include the members-to-be of the Sámi Giellalávdegoddi (SGL) in this discussion, but how? We need a common meeting / normativity seminar / seminar on proofing issues and on language technology in a broader sense with them. Then we also need to open the linguistic issues newsgroup we talked about earlier, and set up their computers and teach them to use the newsgroup. This seminar needs to include the Lule Sámi section of SGL (others are welcome too). Timetable:
  - The Sámediggiráddi is going to appoint new members before Christmas ( Johan Mikkel Saara is asking people)
  - Contact the SGL when it is elected, in December, and ask them to arrange a normativity seminar, with invited keypersons.
  - seminar in February?
- TODO list:
  - Maaren to discuss with relevant persons on this issue.
number project still open (see below)
diphthong simplification/G3 issue should be carried over from Lule Sámi.
- TODO:
  - Writing the rules (copy from smj, adjust) (Sjur, Thomas and Trond, next week)

Lule Sámi

Great progress has been made on the G3 issue, just some minor points remain. oa: å has been carried over to ä: e

Open tasks:

Derived G3 that looks like G2 are still open.
- Thomas, Trond and Sjur meet shortly after Dec. 5th to finish the rest.

Today's compilation time:

real 5m17.157s user 3m26.827s sys 0m5.070s

Numerals

The following North Sámi linguistic issues should be settled before going into the numeral project:

Three-part compounds
Diphthong simplification
Derivation

These issues are recently done in Lule Sámi, and it is more efficient to complete them in North Sámi directly thereafter instead of beginning a new topic

Numeral treatment is on different level in the existing sme and smj parsers, but the issue itself is common to the two langauges, and should therefore be treated in parallel.

Numerals in North Sámi: Inventory is listed elsewhere.

Numerals in Lule Sámi: There are 70 lines of code setting up the structure for case inflection of basic numerals.

7. Name lexicon infrastructure

Present proposal:

name-oriented, single document:
- one name with many uses stored only once

Present risten.no:

Concept-oriented center, contains:
- ID, links to each language entry
each language as a separate document, with links to the concept/entity in the cross-lingual center

Possible new propsal 1: as risten.no

Possible new proposal 2: separate documents:

Containing one common concept or name id field, plus Divvun/Disamb fields only
Containing one common concept or name id field, plus kvensk fields only
common document containing one common id field, plus fields common to several bases

Porsanger both person and place Porsáŋgu only as place name, not as person name.

5 lgs give 10 Trosterud, 5 Timbuktu, it would be better to have 2 Trosterud and 1 Timbuktu, but 15 contlexica for these three concepts.

Discussion to continue in the newsgroup.

Tasks:

testing of conversion
continue the discussion of the name lexicon format ( Saara, Tomi, Sjur, Trond)
implement a prototype in eXist
eXist as editor:
1. develop the needed XQueries and interface
2. synchronisation between risten.no and
3. test whether eXist as editor is actually working well

8. Other

Technical issues

The mac os / perl bug (at least Trond and Sjur has it, Bugzilla #211):
- utf8 "\xC4" does not map to Unicode at /Users/trond/gt/script/preprocess line 82. This msg did not show up in 10.3 (perl 5.8.1), but does so in 10.4 (perl 5.8.6). It is probably a perl - OS mismatch. (Trond, Saara, Tomi)
- Test: the result of the last line should indicate whehter this is a problem in cat or a Perl/OS mismatch.

   preprocess file_name.txt OK
   cat file_name.txt | preprocess !!
   catxml file_name.xml | preprocess ??

Video conferencing across firewalls

We're still waiting for a working URL (working from outside SD, that is).

Bug fixing

28 open bugs (and 2 risten.no bugs)

Move Bugzilla

Move Bugzilla to the same server as the other ones (or make it work at the expected URL: http: //giellatekno.uit.no/bugzilla/).

TODO, TODO. Thor Øivind.

risten.no

The risten.no data has been rescued, and a new version of eXist is ready for installation. The installation has not been done due to the network problems at SD. Will be done this week, probably today. Also, an even newer version of eXist has been released (snapshot from last Saturday).

Tomi will continue the proper name work.

Rugsacks

Were delivered on Nov 25. They have disappeared at UiTø, but that is now being investigated. Two were also properly delivered at SD/Guovdageaidnu.

9. Summary, task list