Meeting_2009-03-30
Contents:
- Meeting setup
- Agenda
- Opening, agenda review, participants
- Updated task status since last meeting
- Pedagogical software online
- Corpus gathering
- Promoting Divvun
- Future plans, directions and ideas
- Infrastructure
- Linguistics
- Name lexicon/risten.no infrastructure
- Proofing tools
- Other
- Next meeting, closing
- Appendix - task lists for the next five days
Meeting setup
- Date: 30.3.2009
- Time: 09.30 Norw. time
- Place: Internet
- Tools: SubEthaEdit, iChat
Agenda
Cf. one of the following, depending on context:
- the upper bar of the SEE window (provided you use the JSPWiki syntax mode)
- the TOC in Forrest-rendered output, like HTML and PDF
Opening, agenda review, participants
Opened at 10: 13.
Present:
Absent: none
Agenda accepted as is.
Updated task status since last meeting
Børre
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- print 50 leaflets and send them to Trondheim
- Printed them, but nobody went there from Tromsø …
- Printed them, but nobody went there from Tromsø …
- Implement new version of giellatekno front page without ToC
- Not done
- Not done
- leaflet: add Linux info
- Fixed the english linux info, translated it to bokmål
- Fixed the english linux info, translated it to bokmål
-
gt/Makefile remake
- nothing done
- nothing done
- Set up the apache server for the risten.no beta on the linux box + Xserve.
- Waiting for Sjur to set up the beta version, for me to do the last part
- Waiting for Sjur to set up the beta version, for me to do the last part
- add sound to screencast of using our tools
- Will not do it
- Will not do it
- SVN reorg to resolve the access control thing
- Ongoing work, the real deal will probably be done on thursday, april 2
- Ongoing work, the real deal will probably be done on thursday, april 2
-
fix bugs!
- Fixed http: //giellatekno.uit.no/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=772
Ciprian
- improve processing of new corpus documents
- make the pipeline of StarDict dictionary generation running on the Mac
- take care of the error logging during conversion process
- look at the xml conversion quality
- make a list of (general and special) problems related with
- continue the search and testing of an appropriate tool for
- start building the Kildin dictionary
- check the possible bug in the sma: nob-swe dictionary
- SVN reorg to resolve the access control thing
- fix bugs!
David
- continue gathering sma corpus texts
- ongoing
- ongoing
- contact the sami radio about older manuscrips after the election to the sami
- to do in may
- to do in may
- call Anne-Grethe Bientie and Bierna Bientie about bible texts
- reached Anne-Grethe but not yet Bierna
- reached Anne-Grethe but not yet Bierna
- call Š-blađđi about south saami texts
- called but not heard any more from them
- called but not heard any more from them
- prepare to go to Røyrvik and promote Dåvvome April 15
- ongoing
- not done
- ongoing
- go to Trondheim
- done
- done
- make a list of who stayed at the hotell in Trondheim
- done, but not sent. Could need to confirm with some ppl.
Jovsset
- Find a suitable infrastructure for the distribution of the CD version.
- write formal letter to translator of Gåessie dah jeatjebh åerieminie
- Write installation instructions for word 2003
- sma placenames in SGM document
Per-Eric
- follow-up contract from Lena Davidsson
- Nothing yet
- Nothing yet
- Call Birgit Å Andersen about Kurt Tores smj texts
- Done, she wrote to me: Gijtto! Har ikkje hatt mulighet tel å leita nå
- Done, she wrote to me: Gijtto! Har ikkje hatt mulighet tel å leita nå
- work with missing lists
- Still working
- Still working
- Call Henrik Mikael Kuhmunen about a new time to promote Divvun in
- We have to find out a new week for the tour to Jokkmokk, it's not possible to
- We have to find out a new week for the tour to Jokkmokk, it's not possible to
-
fix bugs!
- Nothing done
Maja
- contact NRK Nord-Trøndelag about recordings in sma and broadcast
- they don´t have, we need to contact the author
- they don´t have, we need to contact the author
- more work on sma adjectives
- done!
- done!
- Send Åsta Vangberg a contract
- not done yet
- not done yet
- Send Lena Kappfjell and Harald Gaski a contract
- not done yet
- not done yet
- Send Sig-Britt Pärsson a contract -
- not done yet
- not done yet
- Need to start programming- fresh up/learn to program adjektives and verbs
Saara
- Include Vasta and Sahka in the log
- add new XSL/XML headers for proofing test docs
- Set up ways of adding meta-information for proofing correct corpus docs
Sjur
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- working on it - XSL transformation is working, but not producing what we want
- working on it - XSL transformation is working, but not producing what we want
- continue to write a proofing API & implementation specification
- nothing last week
- nothing last week
- name db/risten.no
- follow-up on some Polderland-related bugs: 621, 630, 652
- InDesign documentation
- Contact Davvi Girji about cooperation on electronic dictionaries
- subcontractor work for sma proofing tools
- support and maintenance contract for sme and smj, MS+Adobe tools
- Sámi languages as part of Norsk språkbank
- leaflet: add InDesign text
- set up risten.no on eXist/XServe (as a beta version site)
- set up required infra for smenob on risten.no/XServe
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
-
fix bugs!
- other things:
- travelled to Trondheim, to the sma conference there + preparations for it
Thomas
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- nothing this week
- nothing this week
-
sma adjectives
- worked very hard
- worked very hard
- finish reformulating the proper noun grammar like the verbs
- not yet
- not yet
-
fix bugs!
- nothing this week
Tomi
- document how compounding is controlled in the PLX conversion
- not done
- not done
- fix double hyphen bugs
- nothing
- nothing
- fix PL hyphenator bugs
- nothing
- nothing
- fix PL and Hunspell conversion bugs
- not done
- not done
- infrastructure remake
- not done
- not done
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- worked with this
- worked with this
- fix bugs!
Trond
- Register oahpa.no
- Not done.
- Not done.
- end user documentation (how to download and install) - dictionaries
- Added info on potential bug (dict only works with option "(Diacritical)",
- Added info on potential bug (dict only works with option "(Diacritical)",
- Check for IP numbers in the log
- Saara will implement it.
- Saara will implement it.
-
fix bugs!.
- Did some.
Pedagogical software online
Meeting memos can be found at
TODO
- Register oahpa.no (Trond)
- Include Vasta and Sahka in the log (Saara)
- Check for IP numbers in the log (Trond)
- Improve the fst handling (Trond)
Corpus gathering
TODO:
- continue gathering sma corpus texts (David, Jovsset)
- older sámi radio texts would be very welcome as well (David)
-
Maja: NRK Nord-Trøndelag has a lot of recordings in sma, possibly
- call Fylkesmannen i Nordland about sma material (Maja)
- Š-bláđđi has some articles in sma, we should ask for permission to use it
-
David has talked to them, will make a contract with them and Iđut
-
David has talked to them, will make a contract with them and Iđut
- follow up on the sma Bible translations (David)
- the Gun Utsi book is almost there - one contract missing (Jovsset)
- older sámi radio texts would be very welcome as well (David)
- other contacts: Lena Davidsson, daughter to Lars-Matto Tuolja
- discuss infra improvements for corpus rep administration (Børre, Ciprian)
- delayed till we are done with the gt/Makefile improvements
Promoting Divvun
David and Sjur went to Trondheim. Not a huge success, but we got to talk
Next tour de Divvun probably in week 13. Per-Eric has talked to Sámij
TODO:
- make leaflet to inform about the project (Jovsset, David)
- better Windows usage descriptions, with emphasis on the pitfalls
- add Linux info (Børre)
- will do this this week
- will do this this week
- add InDesign text (Sjur) - requires installer
- we now have an installer, but the text needs to be updated
- we now have an installer, but the text needs to be updated
- make XSL script to transform Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- better Windows usage descriptions, with emphasis on the pitfalls
- distribute CD version through the library bus, the language centres and common
- contact MS Nordic, and ask them to include the Divvun tools in the next Office
- prepare to go to Røyrvik and promote Dåvvome (David)
- old date cancelled, no new date, but probably in April
- old date cancelled, no new date, but probably in April
- make a screencast of using our tools (Børre)
- first screencasts made, links to appear
Future plans, directions and ideas
See a separate document in plan/strat/5year.jspwiki.
Northern areas project
Collective congratulations!
The money will be in the next state budget, meaning potentially a project start
TODO:
- Attend a beginners' course in Russian (priority: the alphabet!) near you..
- Keep potential key personel alert
- To a certain extent plan for The Thing
Infrastructure
To accomodate future enhancements in different directions (in rough order of
- test bench for all parts of our language technology efforts
- test bench enhanced, but not yet complet
- test bench enhanced, but not yet complet
- set up the Leopard Server features for collaborative support:
- permanent chat rooms
- stored (and indexed) chat transcripts of the chat rooms
- iCal server / group calendars
- wiki
- permanent chat rooms
- wiki? on G5 (is part of Leopard Server) or other web-based documentation
- improve Forrest stability and i18n support ( the divvun crashes)
-
Sjur has been working on better i18n and pdf rendering
-
Børre has some ideas for getting back to serving static html files
-
Sjur has been working on better i18n and pdf rendering
- reorganise the documentation:
- differ between target groups
- get better grouping
- decide what to write in forrest and what in wiki
- update/add missing parts
- differ between target groups
- migrate lexc lexicons to XML, splitting the task
- Name lexica (the Name project)
- Dictionaries (already in XML, task is to integrate them)
- At least migrate the lexc open POSes (Komi as a pilot case)
- Name lexica (the Name project)
- change the look of the documentation web
- use HFST as alternative to XFST
- corpus content moved to Max Planck repositories? Norsk språkbank?
- update infrastructure to allow content-restricted spellers for special target
SVN issues:
- http access not yet available (https only at the moment, but it works as
- read access to the whole repo is working, BUT:
-
gt/*/polderland should be protected
-
plan should be protected
-
gt/*/polderland should be protected
- certain users need to be on the UiT VPN to be able to commit (bug #705)
- UTF-8 problem in svn commit mails: the commit log text is garbled
SVN strategies:
- split the repository into two, or move the closed parts to the root of our
- the continuation depends on the above
TODO:
- infrastructure remake: ( Børre, Ciprian, Saara, Sjur, Tomi, Trond)
- make a test-all target that runs all tests we have (Ciprian, Sjur, Trond)
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- define and document testing routines (Ciprian, Sjur, Trond)
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- follow-up migration to svn:
- close the open SVN repository at requested paths (Ciprian)
- completely closed at the moment, until we have solved the path-based control
- completely closed at the moment, until we have solved the path-based control
- prepare and discuss with external users: Jack Ruether (Trond)
- close the open SVN repository at requested paths (Ciprian)
- test iCal Server (on G5) (Børre)
- remove TOC from the giellatekno home page by using dispatcher (Trond)
- svn reorg sugg: just move to top-level folders first, then reorganise, and
Linguistics
We need a more fine-grained system for denoting morphological boundaries. Here's
- word boundary:
- (# makes .#. unusable in twolc)
- (# makes .#. unusable in twolc)
- inflection: <, >
- compound-like inflection: <#, #> (cf -gujmie) (lexc %<#, #%>)
- derivation: «, »
- compound-like derivation: «#, #» (cf -aktig, -skap in nob, swe, etc)
- clitica: ‹, › - muorak and muorage but only muorasge and not
- opaque compounds (bringebær): *#, #* - * on the side of the opaque part
The multichar sequences should be defined as Multichar_Symbols.
It might be possible to distinguish, but do we need them?
the suffix -goahti- behaves:
- morphologically like a compound
- semantically like a closed-class word (begin, often, still, ...)
- what is bringe#bær? A compound?
Motivation for the new border symbols:
- compound-like inflection and derivation should be hyphenated as compounds,
- we don't want to use the regular word boundary symbol for this purpose, since
- on the contrary, a richer set of border symbols can be used to enhance e.g. IR
- the regular affix boundaries have turned out to be useful in the making of
The guiding principle behind the symbols is that they provide more information
North Sámi
(nothing new, see proofing bugs below)
Lule Sámi
(nothing new, see proofing bugs below)
South Sámi
TODO:
- reformulate the proper noun grammar according to the Trondheim discussions
- Missing list (focus on closed class words and addition on missing nouns,
-
David made a new missing list from an OCR-ed book
-
David made a new missing list from an OCR-ed book
- make a document for the SGL/SGM, sma section (David with
- placenames (Jovsset)
- abbreviations (David)
- placenames (Jovsset)
- finish the umlaut / derivation work (Thomas, Sjur, Tomi)
- adjectives (Maja with David, Thomas, Trond, Sjur)
Name lexicon/risten.no infrastructure
Instead of building our own webforms and back-end update scripts, use XForms
From the meeting with the terminology and IT teams last week:
- no major rework on the present search interface now
- no work on the editing section; instead:
- add existing lists of sanctioned terminology as separate term entities
- add a dictionary if we can make one with sufficient quality
This means the following tasks:
- find already approved lists, in paper or electronic form (term team)
- convert paper lists to electronic lists (term team)
- convert lists to standard XML (Sjur, Tomi)
- add prepared lists to risten.no (Sjur, Tomi)
TODO:
- fix i18n bug in risten.no/G5 (so they will work without the proper locale
- fix bugs in lexc2xml; add comments to the log element (Saara)
- finish first version of the editing (Sjur)
- test editing of the xml files. If ok, then: ( Sjur, Thomas, Trond)
- make terms-smX.xml <=== automatically from propernoun-sme-lex.xml (add nob
- convert propernoun-($lang)-lex.txt to a derived file from common xml files
- implement data synchronisation between risten.no and
- start to use the xml file as source file
- clean terms-sme.xml such that all names have the correct tag for their use
- merge placenames which are errouneously in different entries: e.g. Helsinki,
- publish the name lexicon on risten.no (Sjur)
- add missing parallel names for placenames (linguists)
- add informative links between first names like Niillas and Nils
Dictionaries
Ciprian is working towards our first sma-nob/swe dictionary, coming today?
TODO:
- Set up the apache server for the risten.no beta on the linux box + Xserve.
- set up risten.no on eXist/XServe (as a beta version site) (Sjur)
- not yet done
- not yet done
- set up required infra for smenob on risten.no/XServe (Sjur)
- waiting for the above
- waiting for the above
- Continue the dictionary infrastructure discussion (Ciprian, Sjur, Trond)
- end user documentation (how to download and install) (Ciprian, Trond)
- started, not complete
- started, not complete
- Contact Davvi Girji about cooperation on electronic dictionaries
Proofing tools
HFST-based proofing tools
TODO:
- start to write an API specification, and an implementation specification
Hunspell
Børre has released beta7, with working clitics, negation verb and copula.
OpenXSpell
As a middle-man between Enchant and MacOS X speller API, this is still
Testing
Spelling Error Markup
TODO:
- Set up ways of adding meta-information (source info, used in testing or not,
- test new and nested error markup (Sjur)
- nesting still needs to be tested, depends on new ccat feature
Speller testing
TODO:
- test the error type selection feature in ccat (Sjur)
Testing open-source Norwegian spellers
Sjur has invited the open-source group to test their spell-checker using our
We should go to their developer meetings, and present our work and how to work
Speller bugs
List of bugs returned from Polderland:
- 621
- 630
- 652
- 656
- 676
Open issues based on test results:
sme
- 399 - REGERSSION: missing numerals (plural forms)
- 425 - X not recognized; single letters were left out - OPEN
- 435 - roman numbers - inflection of single letter numbers
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- 581 - consonant doubling - seems FIXED
- 595 - prefix+name without hyphen (ovdaLot instead of ovda-Lot) - still
- 603 - suomabealdi accepted - still OPEN
- 606 - compound-tags LEXICON VUOHTA - OPEN
- 613 - short gen. as second compound part - still OPEN
- 619 - numerals and pronouns to NAMÁK and SASJ fails - vihttasoarttat
- 629 - a taking part in compounding without hyphen - still OPEN
- only open case has word A-finálaid compounded
- only open case has word A-finálaid compounded
- 642 - noun/adj/proper + hyphen + ain - still OPEN
- 647 - numerals+NOUN - still OPEN, open case has uppercase letters
- 648 - unmotivated suggestions with numeral+noun - still OPEN
- 728 - vowel shortening GenCmp+Left-tagged - still OPEN
- 779 - caseforms of pronoun okatahat
smj
- 435 - roman number - single letter numbers now recognised
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- please note that inflection of single letter numerals is fine in
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- 594 - REGRESSION: lågenanguoktáj not recognized
- 595 - prefix+name as split comp without hyphen - still OPEN
- 596 - C-giellan is not accepted - OPEN
- 647 - numerals+NOUN - still OPEN, open case has uppercase letters
- 648 - unmotivated suggestions with numeral+noun - still OPEN
- 650 - noun prefix+name compound without hyphen - still OPEN
- 652 - UPPERCASE-typos only get acronym-suggestions - still OPEN
- 692 - numeral-variants - all but one fixed (gáktsalågenantjuotakta), but
TODO:
- document how compounding is controlled in the PLX conversion (Tomi)
Hyphenator bugs
Open issues based on test results :
sme
- 468 - Márkomeanu - still OPEN
- 547 - hyphen in front of vowel: Lotnolasealáhusas - still OPEN
- 548 - mid syllable hyphenation: Háliidivččen - still OPEN
- 549 - division without hyph: Váccedettiin - still OPEN
smj
- 547 - hyphen in front of vowel: Jienastimnjuolgadusá and Orgánajs -
- 670 - Hard hyphen replaced with soft hyphen: 10-biejvvásattja (the word is
TODO:
- fix PL hyphenator errors (Tomi)
Installer changes
TODO:
- make a Mac installer for the InDesign Divvun tools (Tomi)
- replace InstallShield with an open-source alternative (Tomi)
- test InDesign installer (Sjur)
User documentation
TODO:
- InDesign documentation (Sjur)
- Norwegian translation received from Davvi Girji
1.2 release
Content:
- several smj bug fixes
- lexicalisations
- InDesign Mac & Win
- new OOo beta
- improved installers, at least for Mac, preferably also for Windows
Other
Report on permanent Divvun
Børre
- quite all right
- no strong opinions
- good that they recomment the current org, because it works
- good that they recomment stronger cooperation with SA
- corpus material
- better mindshare
- corpus material
- if part of UiT: probably the same, happy that we seem to have work going
- probably better off with UiT, at least professional-wise
Maja
- summary looks good
- stronger binding to SA is good
- feels too new to have a strong opinion
- if part of UiT: don't know, no opinion
Per-Eric
- really good and concrete evaluation of the project
- SA should be more involved
- we should promote the tools much more than we have done so far
- the text is really ok
- if part of UiT: probably the same as today
Thomas
- a great report, everything is good
- if part of UiT: the important thing is that my role and conditions don't
Tomi
- no critical comments
- if part of UiT: will be the same kind of employer as SD, but better
David
- overall very good
- covered all aspects
- agree that Divvun should be part of SD
- SD has responsibiity for the Sámi language
- it is good that SA is NOT recommended as host, as it is North Sámi, and
- good that SA is part of the board
- if part of UiT: personally probably ok to be part of UiT; more in the academic
Trond
- would have liked to see a better understanding of the relationship between
- the disadvantages of having Divvun as part of UiT is not that it isn't Sámi
- the report does not understand the way the work is shared between UiT and
- all the negative points about UiT is wrong (and this is much more about
South Sámi seminar follow-up
We should make a final list of who went to the hotel when, to check the final
Travelling plans in the coming months
- Project board meeting in Karasjok, ca 15.4. - Sjur
- Nesna conference on sma education and research, especially language
- link? date? (sometime in May)
-
Maja could go there
- link? date? (sometime in May)
- NODALIDA, Odense, 14-16.5. - Sjur, Trond, Lene, ...
Text to speech
To be started relatively soon. May?
TNC, rikstermbanken and Sámi terms
Available at: http://www.rikstermbanken.se.
Corpus contracts + open source
Postponed until the svn repository is fully functional (it is too open now).
FSMNLP Pretoria 21-24 July
Call for paper.
IMPORTANT DATES:
- Full paper submissions due: 13 April 2009
- Notification of acceptance for full papers: 12 May 2009
- Extended abstract submissions due: 17 May 2009
- Notification of acceptance for extended abstracts: June 14 2009
- Deadline for inclusion in preproceedings: June 28 2009
Easter
Maja??
Next meeting, closing
The next meeting is 20.4.2009, 9.30 Norwegian time.
The meeting was closed at 11: 04.
Appendix - task lists for the next five days
Boerre
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- Implement new version of giellatekno front page without ToC
-
gt/Makefile remake
- Set up the apache server for the risten.no beta on the linux box + Xserve.
- SVN reorg to resolve the access control thing
- fix bugs!
Ciprian
- improve processing of new corpus documents
- make the pipeline of StarDict dictionary generation running on the Mac
- take care of the error logging during conversion process
- look at the xml conversion quality
- make a list of (general and special) problems related with
- continue the search and testing of an appropriate tool for
- start building the Kildin dictionary
- check the possible bug in the sma: nob-swe dictionary
- SVN reorg to resolve the access control thing
- fix bugs!
David
- continue gathering sma corpus texts
- contact the sami radio about older manuscrips after the election to the sami
- call Anne-Grethe Bientie and Bierna Bientie about bible texts
- call Š-blađđi about south saami texts
- prepare to go to Røyrvik and promote Dåvvome April 15
- make a list of who stayed at the hotell in Trondheim
- work with derivations
Jovsset
- Find a suitable infrastructure for the distribution of the CD version.
- write formal letter to translator of Gåessie dah jeatjebh åerieminie
- Write installation instructions for word 2003
- sma placenames in SGM document
Per-Eric
- follow-up contract from Lena Davidsson
- Try to find more smj texts
- work with missing lists
- fix bugs!
Maja
- contact NRK Nord-Trøndelag about recordings in sma and broadcast
- more work on sma adjectives
- Send Åsta Vangberg a contract
- Send Lena Kappfjell and Harald Gaski a contract
- Send Sig-Britt Pärsson a contract -
- Need to start programming- fresh up/learn to program adjektives and verbs
Saara
- Include Vasta and Sahka in the log
- add new XSL/XML headers for proofing test docs
- Set up ways of adding meta-information for proofing correct corpus docs
Sjur
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- continue to write a proofing API & implementation specification
- name db/risten.no
- follow-up on some Polderland-related bugs: 621, 630, 652
- InDesign documentation
- Contact Davvi Girji about cooperation on electronic dictionaries
- subcontractor work for sma proofing tools
- support and maintenance contract for sme and smj, MS+Adobe tools
- Sámi languages as part of Norsk språkbank
- leaflet: add InDesign text
- set up risten.no on eXist/XServe (as a beta version site)
- set up required infra for smenob on risten.no/XServe
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- work with the permanent organisation of Divvun
- fix bugs!
Thomas
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
-
sma adjectives
- finish reformulating the proper noun grammar like the verbs
- fix bugs!
Tomi
- document how compounding is controlled in the PLX conversion
- fix double hyphen bugs
- fix PL hyphenator bugs
- fix PL and Hunspell conversion bugs
- infrastructure remake
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- fix bugs!
Trond
- Check for IP numbers in the log
- fix bugs!.