Meeting_2009-04-20
Contents:
- Agenda
- Opening, agenda review, participants
- Updated task status since last meeting
- Pedagogical software online
- Corpus gathering
- Promoting Divvun
- Future plans, directions and ideas
- Infrastructure
- Linguistics
- Name lexicon/risten.no infrastructure
- Proofing tools
- Other
- Next meeting, closing
- Appendix - task lists for the next five days
!!!Meeting setup
- Date: 20.4.2009
- Time: 09.30 Norw. time
- Place: Internet
- Tools: SubEthaEdit, iChat
Agenda
Cf. one of the following, depending on context:
- the upper bar of the SEE window (provided you use the JSPWiki syntax mode)
- the TOC in Forrest-rendered output, like HTML and PDF
Opening, agenda review, participants
Opened at 10: 13.
Present:
Absent: Thomas, Trond
Agenda accepted as is.
Updated task status since last meeting
Børre
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Draw document
- not done
- not done
- Implement new version of giellatekno front page without ToC
- not done
- not done
-
gt/Makefile remake
- not done
- not done
- Set up the apache server for the risten.no beta on the linux box + Xserve.
- not done
- not done
- SVN reorg to resolve the access control thing
- done
- done
-
fix bugs!
- other:
- began work on the G5 again
Ciprian
- check the processing of new corpus documents (error logging during conversion,
- todo
- todo
- make the pipeline of StarDict dictionary generation running on the Mac
- ongoing
- ongoing
- continue the search and testing of an appropriate tool for
- ongoing
- ongoing
- start building the Kildin dictionary
- ongoing (a test version is already done)
- ongoing (a test version is already done)
- check the possible bug in the sma: nob-swe dictionary
- todo
- todo
- fix the bug with the string length in the popup window (sma: nob)
- todo
- todo
- SVN reorg to resolve the access control thing
- done
- done
-
fix bugs!
- ongoing
David
- continue gathering sma corpus texts
- got a couple of texts from one student at UmU
- got a couple of texts from one student at UmU
- contact the sami radio about older manuscrips after the election to the sami
- not done
- not done
- call Anne-Grethe Bientie and Bierna Bientie about bible texts
- done, need to send contract to both of them, Bible texts added
- done, need to send contract to both of them, Bible texts added
- call Š-blađđi about south saami texts
- done, awaiting their reply
- done, awaiting their reply
- prepare to go to Røyrvik and promote Dåvvome April 15
- done
- not done
- done
- make a list of who stayed at the hotell in Trondheim
- done, but is it sent??
- done, but is it sent??
- work with derivations
- working with them
Jovsset
- Find a suitable infrastructure for the distribution of the CD version.
- Not done
- Not done
- write formal letter to translator of Gåessie dah jeatjebh åerieminie
- Not done
- Not done
- Write installation instructions for word 2003
- Not done
- Not done
-
sma placenames in SGM document
- Not done
Per-Eric
- follow-up contract from Lena Davidsson
- Need help to make a new contract on the computer, maybe Børre?
- Need help to make a new contract on the computer, maybe Børre?
- Try to find more smj texts
- Nothing
- Nothing
- work with missing lists
- Working on it
- Working on it
-
fix bugs!
- Nothing
Maja
- contact NRK Nord-Trøndelag about recordings in sma and broadcast
- more work on sma adjectives
- yes, but se the last pt.
- yes, but se the last pt.
- Send Åsta Vangberg a contract
- have written a formal letter, and will send it. done
- have written a formal letter, and will send it. done
- Send Lena Kappfjell and Harald Gaski a contract
- has to wait until we get contracts from Åsta, beacause Åsta V. and Lena K.
- has to wait until we get contracts from Åsta, beacause Åsta V. and Lena K.
- Send Sig-Britt Pärsson a contract -
- talk together!!
- talk together!!
- Forward Bearna Bietnie a contract -Jupmelem rïjhke lea gietskesne- which has
- Forward Nordland Fylkeskommune a contract -Duedtie Nordlaantesne- which has
- Forward a contract to the authors of Gullietjååtsele and the forlaget- Which has been translated by Anna
- Forward contract to Anne-Lise Dunfjeld - Which is done with Anna Jacobsen
- Forwarded (done) a lot of contracts to Åsta vangberg 'Mojhtesh'.
- Forwarded (done) a lot of contracts to Åsta vangberg 'Mojhtesh'.
- Need to start programming- fresh up/learn to program adjektives and verbs
- It´s not going so fast..Need som help- hawe done some, but
Saara
- Include Vasta and Sahka in the log
- add new XSL/XML headers for proofing test docs
- Set up ways of adding meta-information for proofing correct corpus docs
Sjur
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- commited first sample of code
- commited first sample of code
- continue to write a proofing API & implementation specification
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- name db/risten.no
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- follow-up on some Polderland-related bugs: 621, 630, 652
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- InDesign documentation
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- Contact Davvi Girji about cooperation on electronic dictionaries
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- subcontractor work for sma proofing tools
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- support and maintenance contract for sme and smj, MS+Adobe tools
- waiting for Polderland
- waiting for Polderland
- Sámi languages as part of Norsk språkbank
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- leaflet: add InDesign text
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- set up risten.no on eXist/XServe (as a beta version site)
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- set up required infra for smenob on risten.no/XServe
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- nothing done since last meeting
- nothing done since last meeting
- work with the permanent organisation of Divvun
- this has taken all my time, but now the board of SD has approved the
- this has taken all my time, but now the board of SD has approved the
-
fix bugs!
- other things:
- made a simple CG-3 syntax colour mode for SubEthaEdit
Thomas
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- begun with this again
- begun with this again
-
sma adjectives
- worked
- worked
- finish reformulating the proper noun grammar like the verbs
- not yet
- not yet
-
fix bugs!
- nothing this week
Tomi
- document how compounding is controlled in the PLX conversion
- not done
- not done
- fix double hyphen bugs
- not done
- not done
- fix PL hyphenator bugs
- not done
- not done
- fix PL and Hunspell conversion bugs
- not done
- not done
- infrastructure remake
- not done
- not done
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- worked with this
- worked with this
- fix bugs!
Trond
- Check for IP numbers in the log
- Not discussed this with Saara.
- Not discussed this with Saara.
- fix bugs!.
Pedagogical software online
Meeting memos can be found at
TODO
- Register oahpa.no (Trond)
- Check for IP numbers in the log (Trond)
Corpus gathering
David: one student text, more than expected (a few pages); have also started to
Maja: recevived the contract from Fritz Jakobsen, more details above.
TODO:
- continue gathering sma corpus texts (David, Jovsset)
- older sámi radio texts would be very welcome as well (David)
-
Maja: NRK Nord-Trøndelag has a lot of recordings in sma, possibly
- call Fylkesmannen i Nordland about sma material (Maja)
- Š-bláđđi has some articles in sma, we should ask for permission to use it
-
David has talked to them, will make a contract with them and Iđut
-
David has talked to them, will make a contract with them and Iđut
- follow up on the sma Bible translations (David)
- the Gun Utsi book is almost there - one contract missing (Jovsset)
- older sámi radio texts would be very welcome as well (David)
- other contacts: Lena Davidsson, daughter to Lars-Matto Tuolja
- discuss infra improvements for corpus rep administration (Børre, Ciprian)
- delayed till we are done with the gt/Makefile improvements
- delayed till we are done with the gt/Makefile improvements
- meeting to coordinate discussions with Pia Persson (David, Jovsset, Maja)
Promoting Divvun
Next tour de Divvun in week 18. Per-Eric will go alone to Sámij
TODO:
- make leaflet to inform about the project (Jovsset, David)
- better Windows usage descriptions, with emphasis on the pitfalls
- add Linux info (Børre)
- will do this this week
- will do this this week
- add InDesign text (Sjur) - requires installer
- we now have an installer, but the text needs to be updated
- we now have an installer, but the text needs to be updated
- make XSL script to transform Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- check that the Divvun site and leaflet links work after the svn reorg
- better Windows usage descriptions, with emphasis on the pitfalls
- distribute CD version through the library bus, the language centres and common
- contact MS Nordic, and ask them to include the Divvun tools in the next Office
- prepare to go to Røyrvik and promote Dåvvome (David)
- old date cancelled, no new date, but probably in April
- was there last week, got to know one person, potentially with texts
- was there last week, got to know one person, potentially with texts
- old date cancelled, no new date, but probably in April
- make a screencast of using our tools (Børre)
- still problems with making Mac videos, we probably need to buy software
Future plans, directions and ideas
See a separate document in plan/strat/5year.jspwiki.
Northern areas project
TODO:
- Attend a beginners' course in Russian (priority: the alphabet!) near you..
- Keep potential key personel alert
- To a certain extent plan for The Thing
Infrastructure
To accomodate future enhancements in different directions (in rough order of
- test bench for all parts of our language technology efforts
- test bench enhanced, but not yet complet
- test bench enhanced, but not yet complet
- set up the Leopard Server features for collaborative support:
- permanent chat rooms
- stored (and indexed) chat transcripts of the chat rooms
- iCal server / group calendars
- wiki
- permanent chat rooms
- wiki? on G5 (is part of Leopard Server) or other web-based documentation
- improve Forrest stability and i18n support ( the divvun crashes)
-
Sjur has been working on better i18n and pdf rendering
-
Børre has some ideas for getting back to serving static html files
-
Sjur has been working on better i18n and pdf rendering
- reorganise the documentation:
- differ between target groups
- get better grouping
- decide what to write in forrest and what in wiki
- update/add missing parts
- differ between target groups
- migrate lexc lexicons to XML, splitting the task
- Name lexica (the Name project)
- Dictionaries (already in XML, task is to integrate them)
- At least migrate the lexc open POSes (Komi as a pilot case)
- Name lexica (the Name project)
- change the look of the documentation web
- use HFST as alternative to XFST
- corpus content moved to Max Planck repositories? Norsk språkbank?
- update infrastructure to allow content-restricted spellers for special target
SVN issues:
- http access not yet available (https only at the moment, but it works as
- read access to the whole repo is working, BUT:
-
gt/*/polderland should be protected
- done
- done
-
plan should be protected
- done
- done
-
gt/*/polderland should be protected
- certain users need to be on the UiT VPN to be able to commit (bug #705)
- is this still a problem? Probably not, but will be discussed in Bugzilla
- is this still a problem? Probably not, but will be discussed in Bugzilla
- UTF-8 problem in svn commit mails: the commit log text is garbled
SVN strategies:
- split the repository into two, or move the closed parts to the root of our
- the continuation depends on the above
- done
TODO:
- infrastructure remake: ( Børre, Ciprian, Saara, Sjur, Tomi, Trond)
- make a test-all target that runs all tests we have (Ciprian, Sjur, Trond)
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- define and document testing routines (Ciprian, Sjur, Trond)
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- follow-up migration to svn:
- close the open SVN repository at requested paths (Ciprian)
- done
- done
- prepare and discuss with external users: Jack Ruether (Trond)
- done
- done
- close the open SVN repository at requested paths (Ciprian)
- test iCal Server (on G5) (Børre)
- remove TOC from the giellatekno home page by using dispatcher (Trond)
- svn reorg sugg: just move to top-level folders first, then reorganise, and
Linguistics
We need a more fine-grained system for denoting morphological boundaries. Here's
- word boundary:
- (# makes .#. unusable in twolc)
- (# makes .#. unusable in twolc)
- inflection: <, >
- compound-like inflection: <#, #> (cf -gujmie) (lexc %<#, #%>)
- derivation: «, »
- compound-like derivation: «#, #» (cf -aktig, -skap in nob, swe, etc)
- clitica: ‹, › - muorak and muorage but only muorasge and not
- opaque compounds (bringebær): *#, #* - * on the side of the opaque part
The multichar sequences should be defined as Multichar_Symbols.
It might be possible to distinguish, but do we need them?
the suffix -goahti- behaves:
- morphologically like a compound
- semantically like a closed-class word (begin, often, still, ...)
- what is bringe#bær? A compound?
Motivation for the new border symbols:
- compound-like inflection and derivation should be hyphenated as compounds,
- we don't want to use the regular word boundary symbol for this purpose, since
- on the contrary, a richer set of border symbols can be used to enhance e.g. IR
- the regular affix boundaries have turned out to be useful in the making of
The guiding principle behind the symbols is that they provide more information
North Sámi
(nothing new, see proofing bugs below)
Lule Sámi
(nothing new, see proofing bugs below)
South Sámi
TODO:
- reformulate the proper noun grammar according to the Trondheim discussions
- Missing list (focus on closed class words and addition on missing nouns,
-
David made a new missing list from an OCR-ed book
-
David made a new missing list from an OCR-ed book
- make a document for the SGL/SGM, sma section (David with
- placenames (Jovsset)
- abbreviations (David)
- placenames (Jovsset)
- finish the umlaut / derivation work (Thomas, Sjur, Tomi)
- adjectives (Maja with David, Thomas, Trond, Sjur)
Name lexicon/risten.no infrastructure
Instead of building our own webforms and back-end update scripts, use XForms
From the meeting with the terminology and IT teams last week:
- no major rework on the present search interface now
- no work on the editing section; instead:
- add existing lists of sanctioned terminology as separate term entities
- add a dictionary if we can make one with sufficient quality
This means the following tasks:
- find already approved lists, in paper or electronic form (term team)
- convert paper lists to electronic lists (term team)
- convert lists to standard XML (Sjur, Tomi)
- add prepared lists to risten.no (Sjur, Tomi)
TODO:
- fix i18n bug in risten.no/G5 (so they will work without the proper locale
- fix bugs in lexc2xml; add comments to the log element (Saara)
- finish first version of the editing (Sjur)
- test editing of the xml files. If ok, then: ( Sjur, Thomas, Trond)
- make terms-smX.xml <=== automatically from propernoun-sme-lex.xml (add nob
- convert propernoun-($lang)-lex.txt to a derived file from common xml files
- implement data synchronisation between risten.no and
- start to use the xml file as source file
- clean terms-sme.xml such that all names have the correct tag for their use
- merge placenames which are errouneously in different entries: e.g. Helsinki,
- publish the name lexicon on risten.no (Sjur)
- add missing parallel names for placenames (linguists)
- add informative links between first names like Niillas and Nils
Dictionaries
Sma-nob/swe ready in a first version, with some words from the
There has also been glimpses of a sjd-rus dictionary as well, with quite
As an alternativ e to StarDict on Windows, we could license a software package
TODO:
- Set up the apache server for the risten.no beta on the linux box + Xserve.
- set up risten.no on eXist/XServe (as a beta version site) (Sjur)
- not yet done
- not yet done
- set up required infra for smenob on risten.no/XServe (Sjur)
- waiting for the above
- waiting for the above
- Continue the dictionary infrastructure discussion (Ciprian, Sjur, Trond)
- end user documentation (how to download and install) (Ciprian, Trond)
- started, not complete
- started, not complete
- Contact Davvi Girji about cooperation on electronic dictionaries
Proofing tools
HFST-based proofing tools
TODO:
- start to write an API specification, and an implementation specification
Hunspell
Børre has released beta7, with working clitics, negation verb and copula.
OpenXSpell
As a middle-man between Enchant and MacOS X speller API, this is still
Testing
Spelling Error Markup
TODO:
- Set up ways of adding meta-information (source info, used in testing or not,
- test new and nested error markup (Sjur)
- nesting still needs to be tested, depends on new ccat feature
Speller testing
TODO:
- test the error type selection feature in ccat (Sjur)
- make sure lexicon compilation works after the svn reorg (Tomi)
- start to make sma proofing tools (Tomi)
Testing open-source Norwegian spellers
Sjur has invited the open-source group to test their spell-checker using our
We should go to their developer meetings, and present our work and how to work
Speller bugs
List of bugs returned from Polderland:
- 621
- 630
- 652
- 656
- 676
Open issues based on test results:
sme
- 399 - REGERSSION: missing numerals (plural forms)
- 425 - X not recognized; single letters were left out - OPEN
- 435 - roman numbers - inflection of single letter numbers
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- 595 - prefix+name without hyphen (ovdaLot instead of ovda-Lot) - still
- 603 - suomabealdi accepted - still OPEN
- 606 - compound-tags LEXICON VUOHTA - OPEN
- 613 - short gen. as second compound part - still OPEN
- 619 - numerals and pronouns to NAMÁK and SASJ fails - vihttasoarttat
- 629 - a taking part in compounding without hyphen - still OPEN
- only open case has word A-finálaid compounded
- only open case has word A-finálaid compounded
- 642 - noun/adj/proper + hyphen + ain - still OPEN
- 647 - numerals+NOUN - still OPEN, open case has uppercase letters
- 648 - unmotivated suggestions with numeral+noun - still OPEN
- 728 - vowel shortening GenCmp+Left-tagged - still OPEN
- 779 - caseforms of pronoun okatahat
smj
- 435 - roman number - single letter numbers now recognised
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- please note that inflection of single letter numerals is fine in
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- 594 - REGRESSION: lågenanguoktáj not recognized
- 595 - prefix+name as split comp without hyphen - still OPEN
- 596 - C-giellan is not accepted - OPEN
- 647 - numerals+NOUN - still OPEN, open case has uppercase letters
- 648 - unmotivated suggestions with numeral+noun - still OPEN
- 650 - noun prefix+name compound without hyphen - still OPEN
- 652 - UPPERCASE-typos only get acronym-suggestions - still OPEN
- 692 - numeral-variants - all but one fixed (gáktsalågenantjuotakta), but
TODO:
- document how compounding is controlled in the PLX conversion (Tomi)
Hyphenator bugs
Open issues based on test results :
sme
- 468 - Márkomeanu - still OPEN
- 547 - hyphen in front of vowel: Lotnolasealáhusas - still OPEN
- 548 - mid syllable hyphenation: Háliidivččen - still OPEN
- 549 - division without hyph: Váccedettiin - still OPEN
smj
- 547 - hyphen in front of vowel: Jienastimnjuolgadusá and Orgánajs -
- 670 - Hard hyphen replaced with soft hyphen: 10-biejvvásattja (the word is
TODO:
- fix PL hyphenator errors (Tomi)
Installer changes
TODO:
- make a Mac installer for the InDesign Divvun tools (Tomi)
- replace InstallShield with an open-source alternative (Tomi)
- test InDesign installer (Sjur)
User documentation
TODO:
- InDesign documentation (Sjur)
- Norwegian translation received from Davvi Girji
1.2 release
Content:
- several smj bug fixes
- lexicalisations
- InDesign Mac & Win
- new OOo beta
- improved installers, at least for Mac, preferably also for Windows
Other
Permanent Divvun
The report was discussed with the project board, which formulated their own
South Sámi seminar follow-up
We should make a final list of who went to the hotel when, to check the final
Now done, and Sjur should send the list to the travel agency.
Travelling plans in the coming months
- Project board meeting in Karasjok, ca 15.4. - Sjur
- Nesna conference on sma education and research, especially language
- link? date? (sometime in May)
-
Maja could go there
- link? date? (sometime in May)
- NODALIDA, Odense, 14-16.5. - Sjur, Trond, Lene, ...
Text to speech
To be started relatively soon. May?
MT and CAT
These are the next things forward. Two things to do before doing MT/CAT:
- Makefile redo
- xml transition of lexica
Corpus contracts + open source
Postponed until the svn repository is fully functional (it is too open now).
FSMNLP Pretoria 21-24 July
We won't go there.
Next meeting, closing
The next meeting is 27.4.2009, 9.30 Norwegian time.
Trond away then.
The meeting was closed at 12: 11.
Appendix - task lists for the next five days
Boerre
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Draw document
- Implement new version of giellatekno front page without ToC
-
gt/Makefile remake
- Set up the apache server for the risten.no beta on the linux box + Xserve.
- check that the Divvun site and leaflet links work after the svn reorg
- make Mac screencasts of using our tools. Suggestion: use
- fix bugs!
Ciprian
- check the processing of new corpus documents (error logging during conversion,
- make the pipeline of StarDict dictionary generation running on the Mac
- continue the search and testing of an appropriate tool for
- incorporate the passives into the last version of the sme: nob
- continue the work at the Kildin-Russian dictionary
- check the possible bug in the sma: nob-swe dictionary
- fix the bug with the string length in the popup window (sma: nob)
- fix bugs!
David
- continue gathering sma corpus texts
- contact the sami radio about older manuscrips after the election to the sami
- send contract to Anne-Grethe Bientie
- stay in contact with Š-blađđi about south saami texts
- work with derivations
- meeting to coordinate discussions with Pia Persson with Jovsset, Maja
Jovsset
- Find a suitable infrastructure for the distribution of the CD version.
- write formal letter to translator of Gåessie dah jeatjebh åerieminie
- Write installation instructions for word 2003
-
sma placenames in SGM document
- meeting to coordinate discussions with Pia Persson with David, Maja
Per-Eric
- follow-up contract from Lena Davidsson
- Try to find more smj texts
- work with missing lists
- fix bugs!
Maja
- contact NRK Nord-Trøndelag about recordings in sma and broadcast
- more work on sma adjectives
- Send Lena Kappfjell and Harald Gaski a contract
- Send Sig-Britt Pärsson a contract -
- Need to start programming- fresh up/learn to program adjektives and verbs
- meeting to coordinate discussions with Pia Persson with David, Jovsset
Saara
- Include Vasta and Sahka in the log
- add new XSL/XML headers for proofing test docs
- Set up ways of adding meta-information for proofing correct corpus docs
Sjur
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- continue to write a proofing API & implementation specification
- name db/risten.no
- follow-up on some Polderland-related bugs: 621, 630, 652
- InDesign documentation
- Contact Davvi Girji about cooperation on electronic dictionaries
- subcontractor work for sma proofing tools
- support and maintenance contract for sme and smj, MS+Adobe tools
- Sámi languages as part of Norsk språkbank
- leaflet: add InDesign text
- set up risten.no on eXist/XServe (as a beta version site)
- set up required infra for smenob on risten.no/XServe
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- send list of hotel guests in Trondheim to the travel agency
- fix bugs!
Thomas
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
-
sma adjectives
- finish reformulating the proper noun grammar like the verbs
- fix bugs!
Tomi
- make sure lexicon compilation works after the svn reorg
- start to make sma proofing tools
- document how compounding is controlled in the PLX conversion
- fix double hyphen bugs
- fix PL hyphenator bugs
- fix PL and Hunspell conversion bugs
- infrastructure remake
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- fix bugs!
Trond
- Register oahpa.no
- Check for IP numbers in the log
- fix bugs!.