Meeting_2009-05-06
Contents:
- Meeting setup
- Agenda
- Opening, agenda review, participants
- Updated task status since last meeting
- Pedagogical software online
- Corpus gathering
- Promoting Divvun
- Future plans, directions and ideas
- Infrastructure
- Linguistics
- Name lexicon/risten.no infrastructure
- Proofing tools
- Other
- Next meeting, closing
- Appendix - task lists for the next five days
Meeting setup
- Date: 6.5.2009
- Time: 09.30 Norw. time
- Place: Internet
- Tools: SubEthaEdit, iChat
Agenda
Cf. one of the following, depending on context:
- the upper bar of the SEE window (provided you use the JSPWiki syntax mode)
- the TOC in Forrest-rendered output, like HTML and PDF
Opening, agenda review, participants
Opened at 09: 57.
Present:
Absent: David
Agenda accepted as is.
Updated task status since last meeting
Børre
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Draw document
- working
- working
- Implement new version of giellatekno front page without ToC
- not done
- not done
-
gt/Makefile remake
- not done
- not done
- Set up the apache server for the risten.no beta on the linux box + Xserve.
- not done
- not done
- make Mac screencasts of using our tools. Suggestion: use
- not done
- not done
- fix bugs!
Ciprian
- infrastructure
- started to analyse the structure and dependendies in the script-dir
- started to analyse the structure and dependendies in the script-dir
- check the processing of new corpus documents (error logging during conversion,
- todo
- todo
- make the pipeline of StarDict dictionary generation running on the Mac
- ongoing
- ongoing
- continue the search and testing of an appropriate tool for
- ongoing
- ongoing
- incorporate the passives into the last version of the sme: nob
- todo
- todo
- continue the work at the Kildin-Russian dictionary
- hard working at that
- hard working at that
- check the possible bug in the sma: nob-swe dictionary
- todo
- todo
- fix the bug with the string length in the popup window (sma: nob)
- todo
- todo
-
fix bugs!
- todo
David
- continue gathering sma corpus texts
- contact the sami radio about older manuscrips after the election to the sami
- send contract to Anne-Grethe Bientie
- stay in contact with Š-blađđi about south saami texts
- work with derivations
- meeting to coordinate discussions with Pia Persson with Jovsset, Maja
- find adresses to the children of Ella Holm Bull
- talk to Lajla Mattsson Magga about the dictionary
Jovsset
- Find a suitable infrastructure for the distribution of the CD version.
- Todo
- Todo
- write formal letter to translator of Gåessie dah jeatjebh åerieminie
- Todo
- Todo
- Write installation instructions for word 2003
- Todo
- Todo
-
sma placenames in SGM document
- Todo
- Todo
- meeting to coordinate discussions with Pia Persson with David, Maja
- Todo
Per-Eric
- follow-up contract from Lena Davidsson
- Done
- Done
- Try to find more smj texts
- I have talked to Barbro Lundholm in Luleå. She has texts which she
- I have talked to Barbro Lundholm in Luleå. She has texts which she
- work with missing lists
- Nothing done
- Nothing done
-
fix bugs!
- Nothing done
Maja
- contact NRK Nord-Trøndelag about recordings in sma and broadcast
- more work on sma adjectives
- worked with some adj-derivations
- worked with some adj-derivations
- Send Lena Kappfjell and Harald Gaski a contract
- Wait until we have recieved the contracts from Åsta Vangberg
- Wait until we have recieved the contracts from Åsta Vangberg
- Need to start programming- fresh up/learn to program adjektives and verbs
- Waiting to recieve contracts from Nora Bransfjell, Nordland Fylkeskommune,
Saara
- Include Vasta and Sahka in the log
- add new XSL/XML headers for proofing test docs
- Set up ways of adding meta-information for proofing correct corpus docs
Sjur
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- made, now it needs to be finished, helped Børre setting up Forrest to
- made, now it needs to be finished, helped Børre setting up Forrest to
- continue to write a proofing API & implementation specification
- to be done
- to be done
- name db/risten.no
- to be done
- to be done
- follow-up on some Polderland-related bugs: 621, 630, 652
- to be done
- to be done
- InDesign documentation
- to be done
- to be done
- Contact Davvi Girji about cooperation on electronic dictionaries
- to be done
- to be done
- subcontractor work for sma proofing tools
- to be done
- to be done
- support and maintenance contract for sme and smj, MS+Adobe tools
- to be done
- to be done
- Sámi languages as part of Norsk språkbank
- to be done
- to be done
- leaflet: add InDesign text
- to be done
- to be done
- set up risten.no on eXist/XServe (as a beta version site)
- to be done
- to be done
- set up required infra for smenob on risten.no/XServe
- to be done
- to be done
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- to be done
- to be done
- send list of hotel guests in Trondheim to the travel agency
- to be done
- to be done
- announce the availability of our repository on relevant linguistic lists
- to be done
- to be done
-
fix bugs!
- other things:
- paperwork
- improving local infrastructure setup process for new users
- paperwork
Thomas
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- worked, derivation work more or less finished, there may be one or two
- worked, derivation work more or less finished, there may be one or two
-
sma adjectives
- worked
- worked
- finish reformulating the proper noun grammar like the verbs
- not yet
- not yet
-
fix bugs!
- not this week
Tomi
- make sure lexicon compilation works after the svn reorg
- done
- done
- start to make sma proofing tools
- done
- done
- document how compounding is controlled in the PLX conversion
- not done
- not done
- fix double hyphen bugs
- not done
- not done
- fix PL hyphenator bugs
- not done
- not done
- fix PL and Hunspell conversion bugs
- not done
- not done
- infrastructure remake
- not done
- not done
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- not done
- not done
-
fix bugs!
- other
- started playing with couchdb a bit
Trond
- Register oahpa.no
- Not yet.
- Not yet.
- Check for IP numbers in the log
- Discussed with Saara, not yet.
- Discussed with Saara, not yet.
- tts startup (with Sjur)
- Postponed.
- Postponed.
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- Worked on sma, but not on these topics.
- Worked on sma, but not on these topics.
-
fix bugs!.
- Monioring them.
Pedagogical software online
To introduce Ciprian to Oahpa, he could add a clock excercise (the fsts are
Meeting memos can be found at
TODO
- Register oahpa.no (Trond)
- Check for IP numbers in the log (Trond)
Corpus gathering
Maja has sent letter to Nordland Fylkeskommune, Nora Bransfjell and Åsta
TODO:
- continue gathering sma corpus texts (David, Jovsset)
- older sámi radio texts would be very welcome as well (David)
-
Maja: NRK Nord-Trøndelag has a lot of recordings in sma, possibly
- call Fylkesmannen i Nordland about sma material (Maja)
- Š-bláđđi has some articles in sma, we should ask for permission to use it
-
David has talked to them, will make a contract with them and Iđut
-
David has talked to them, will make a contract with them and Iđut
- follow up on the sma Bible translations (David)
- the Gun Utsi book is almost there - one contract missing (Jovsset)
- older sámi radio texts would be very welcome as well (David)
- other contacts: Lena Davidsson, daughter to Lars-Matto Tuolja
- discuss infra improvements for corpus rep administration (Børre, Ciprian)
- delayed till we are done with the gt/Makefile improvements
- delayed till we are done with the gt/Makefile improvements
- meeting to coordinate discussions with Pia Persson (David, Jovsset, Maja)
- Jovsset not yet informed
Promoting Divvun
TODO:
- make leaflet to inform about the project (Jovsset, David)
- add InDesign text (Sjur)
- make XSL script to transform Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- check that the Divvun site and leaflet links work after the svn reorg
- done
- done
- add InDesign text (Sjur)
- distribute CD version through the library bus, the language centres and common
- make a list of contact persons, make sure they have CD's
- make a list of contact persons, make sure they have CD's
- make a Mac screencast of using our tools (Børre)
- had a brief look, but not yet done
Future plans, directions and ideas
See a separate document in plan/strat/5year.jspwiki.
Northern areas project
TODO:
- Attend a beginners' course in Russian (priority: the alphabet!) near you..
- Keep potential key personel alert
- To a certain extent plan for The Thing
Infrastructure
To accomodate future enhancements in different directions (in rough order of
- test bench for all parts of our language technology efforts
- test bench enhanced, but not yet complet
- test bench enhanced, but not yet complet
- set up the Leopard Server features for collaborative support:
- permanent chat rooms
- stored (and indexed) chat transcripts of the chat rooms
- iCal server / group calendars
- wiki
- permanent chat rooms
- wiki? on G5 (is part of Leopard Server) or other web-based documentation
- improve Forrest stability and i18n support ( the divvun crashes)
-
Sjur has been working on better i18n and pdf rendering
-
Børre has some ideas for getting back to serving static html files
-
Sjur has been working on better i18n and pdf rendering
- reorganise the documentation:
- differ between target groups
- get better grouping
- decide what to write in forrest and what in wiki
- update/add missing parts
- differ between target groups
- migrate lexc lexicons to XML, splitting the task
- Name lexica (the Name project)
- Dictionaries (already in XML, task is to integrate them)
- At least migrate the lexc open POSes (Komi as a pilot case)
- Name lexica (the Name project)
- change the look of the documentation web
- use HFST as alternative to XFST
- corpus content moved to Max Planck repositories? Norsk språkbank?
- update infrastructure to allow content-restricted spellers for special target
TODO:
- restructure the local setup using environmental variables and a script for
- restructure and clean the script catalogue, using subdirs to categorise the
- infrastructure remake: ( Børre, Ciprian, Saara, Sjur, Tomi, Trond)
- make a test-all target that runs all tests we have (Ciprian, Sjur, Trond)
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- define and document testing routines (Ciprian, Sjur, Trond)
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- delayed until we have restructured the make/build process
- test iCal Server (on G5) (Børre)
- remove TOC from the giellatekno home page by using dispatcher (Trond)
Linguistics
We need a more fine-grained system for denoting morphological boundaries. Here's
- word boundary:
- (# makes .#. unusable in twolc)
- (# makes .#. unusable in twolc)
- inflection: <, >
- compound-like inflection: <#, #> (cf -gujmie) (lexc %<#, #%>)
- derivation: «, »
- compound-like derivation: «#, #» (cf -aktig, -skap in nob, swe, etc)
- clitica: ‹, › - muorak and muorage but only muorasge and not
- opaque compounds (bringebær): *#, #* - * on the side of the opaque part
The multichar sequences should be defined as Multichar_Symbols.
It might be possible to distinguish, but do we need them?
the suffix -goahti- behaves:
- morphologically like a compound
- semantically like a closed-class word (begin, often, still, ...)
- what is bringe#bær? A compound?
Motivation for the new border symbols:
- compound-like inflection and derivation should be hyphenated as compounds,
- we don't want to use the regular word boundary symbol for this purpose, since
- on the contrary, a richer set of border symbols can be used to enhance e.g. IR
- the regular affix boundaries have turned out to be useful in the making of
The guiding principle behind the symbols is that they provide more information
North Sámi
(nothing new, see proofing bugs below)
Lule Sámi
(nothing new, see proofing bugs below)
South Sámi
Adj->verb derivations is the next topic.
TODO:
- reformulate the proper noun grammar according to the Trondheim discussions
- update the normativity issues document for the SGL/SGM (David with
- placenames (Maja)
- other issues
- placenames (Maja)
- finish the umlaut / derivation work (Thomas, Sjur, Tomi)
- adjectives (Maja with David, Thomas, Trond, Sjur)
- two competing naming conventions of continuation lexicons
- One naming goes ATTRSUFF-PREDSUFF-STEMTYPE
- One follows the sme convention of naming key adjectives
- There are duplicate lexica
- One naming goes ATTRSUFF-PREDSUFF-STEMTYPE
- The comparative issue open here and there
- The ATTRSUFF-PREDSUFF-STEMTYPE lexica now go to EVENCOMP and
- The ATTRSUFF-PREDSUFF-STEMTYPE lexica now go to EVENCOMP and
- two competing naming conventions of continuation lexicons
There are now 56 adjectival continuation lexica, and 341 stray forms.
Name lexicon/risten.no infrastructure
Tomi has played with couchdb as a replacement
Instead of building our own webforms and back-end update scripts, use XForms
From the meeting with the terminology and IT teams last week:
- no major rework on the present search interface now
- no work on the editing section; instead:
- add existing lists of sanctioned terminology as separate term entities
- add a dictionary if we can make one with sufficient quality
This means the following tasks:
- find already approved lists, in paper or electronic form (term team)
- convert paper lists to electronic lists (term team)
- convert lists to standard XML (Sjur, Tomi)
- add prepared lists to risten.no (Sjur, Tomi)
TODO:
- fix i18n bug in risten.no/G5 (so they will work without the proper locale
- fix bugs in lexc2xml; add comments to the log element (Saara)
- finish first version of the editing (Sjur)
- test editing of the xml files. If ok, then: ( Sjur, Thomas, Trond)
- make terms-smX.xml <=== automatically from propernoun-sme-lex.xml (add nob
- convert propernoun-($lang)-lex.txt to a derived file from common xml files
- implement data synchronisation between risten.no and
- start to use the xml file as source file
- clean terms-sme.xml such that all names have the correct tag for their use
- merge placenames which are errouneously in different entries: e.g. Helsinki,
- publish the name lexicon on risten.no (Sjur)
- add missing parallel names for placenames (linguists)
- add informative links between first names like Niillas and Nils
Dictionaries
TODO:
- Set up the apache server for the risten.no beta on the linux box + Xserve.
- set up risten.no on eXist/XServe (as a beta version site) (Sjur)
- set up required infra for smenob on risten.no/XServe (Sjur)
- Continue the dictionary infrastructure discussion (Ciprian, Sjur, Trond)
- end user documentation (how to download and install) (Ciprian, Trond)
- Contact Davvi Girji about cooperation on electronic dictionaries
Proofing tools
HFST-based proofing tools
TODO:
- start to write an API specification, and an implementation specification
Hunspell
Børre has released beta7, with working clitics, negation verb and copula.
OpenXSpell
As a middle-man between Enchant and MacOS X speller API, this is still
Testing
Spelling Error Markup
TODO:
- Set up ways of adding meta-information (source info, used in testing or not,
- test new and nested error markup (Sjur)
- nesting still needs to be tested, depends on new ccat feature
Speller testing
TODO:
- test the error type selection feature in ccat (Sjur)
- make sure lexicon compilation works after the svn reorg (Tomi)
- done
- done
- start to make sma proofing tools (Tomi)
- done
- package and deliver (Sjur, Tomi)
- done
Testing open-source Norwegian spellers
Sjur has invited the open-source group to test their spell-checker using our
We should go to their developer meetings, and present our work and how to work
Speller bugs
List of bugs returned from Polderland:
- 621
- 630
- 652
- 656
- 676
Open issues based on test results:
sme
- 399 - REGERSSION: missing numerals (plural forms)
- 425 - X not recognized; single letters were left out - OPEN
- 435 - roman numbers - inflection of single letter numbers
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- 595 - prefix+name without hyphen (ovdaLot instead of ovda-Lot) - still
- 603 - suomabealdi accepted - still OPEN
- 606 - compound-tags LEXICON VUOHTA - OPEN
- 613 - short gen. as second compound part - still OPEN
- 619 - numerals and pronouns to NAMÁK and SASJ fails - vihttasoarttat
- 629 - a taking part in compounding without hyphen - still OPEN
- only open case has word A-finálaid compounded
- only open case has word A-finálaid compounded
- 642 - noun/adj/proper + hyphen + ain - still OPEN
- 647 - numerals+NOUN - still OPEN, open case has uppercase letters
- 648 - unmotivated suggestions with numeral+noun - still OPEN
- 728 - vowel shortening GenCmp+Left-tagged - still OPEN
- 779 - caseforms of pronoun okatahat
smj
- 435 - roman number - single letter numbers now recognised
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- please note that inflection of single letter numerals is fine in
- we should pregenerate all numbers once and for all, and store them in a
- 594 - REGRESSION: lågenanguoktáj not recognized
- 595 - prefix+name as split comp without hyphen - still OPEN
- 596 - C-giellan is not accepted - OPEN
- 647 - numerals+NOUN - still OPEN, open case has uppercase letters
- 648 - unmotivated suggestions with numeral+noun - still OPEN
- 650 - noun prefix+name compound without hyphen - still OPEN
- 652 - UPPERCASE-typos only get acronym-suggestions - still OPEN
- 692 - numeral-variants - all but one fixed (gáktsalågenantjuotakta), but
TODO:
- document how compounding is controlled in the PLX conversion (Tomi)
Hyphenator bugs
Open issues based on test results :
sme
- 468 - Márkomeanu - still OPEN
- 547 - hyphen in front of vowel: Lotnolasealáhusas - still OPEN
- 548 - mid syllable hyphenation: Háliidivččen - still OPEN
- 549 - division without hyph: Váccedettiin - still OPEN
smj
- 547 - hyphen in front of vowel: Jienastimnjuolgadusá and Orgánajs -
- 670 - Hard hyphen replaced with soft hyphen: 10-biejvvásattja (the word is
TODO:
- fix PL hyphenator errors (Tomi)
Installer changes
TODO:
- test InDesign installer (Sjur)
User documentation
TODO:
- InDesign documentation (Sjur)
- Norwegian translation received from Davvi Girji
1.2 release
Content:
- several smj bug fixes
- lexicalisations
- InDesign Mac & Win
- new OOo beta
- improved installers, at least for Mac, preferably also for Windows
Other
Summer holidays
Person | Dates |
---|---|
Børre | xx-yy |
Ciprian | 13.07.09-17.07.09 ??? |
Jovsset | xx-yy |
Maja | week: 27-31??? |
Sjur | xx-yy |
Thomas | 130709-140809 ?? |
Tomi | xx-yy |
Trond | 290609-yy ?? (first three july weeks) + before or after |
Copenhagen iTerm course
Jovsset and Ciprian went there.
Ciprian:
- iTerm is good if working with very well structured, small ontologies - not more than 40 terms pr ontology class
- a real disadvantage is that you are not allowed to create new ontologies on the fly
- you can export and import, but you can't do it without telling how many databases (subjects/domains/"emner") you need - too inflexible
- do we want this? we need to compare our needs, whether it is a good replacement for eXist
- ontologies, terminologies are not word lists, but structures
- we should think in terms of use cases:
- who is adding terms, info
- who is doing technical maintenance
- who is using it, how
- etc.
- who is adding terms, info
Jovsset:
- fairly user-friendly, easy to find the corresponding term in another language
- ontologies were predefined, no other ontologies
- easy to add explanations, definitions
- good GUI for the ontologies (tree view?)
South Sámi seminar follow-up
David sent the list to Sjur, who will have a look, and forward it to the
Travelling plans in the coming months
- NODALIDA, Odense, 14-16.5. - Sjur, Trond, Lene, Ciprian
- EAMT, Barcelona 14.-15.5. - Linda
- Seminar (Forskarforbundet) 21.5-28.5 - Trond
- NORDTERM 2009: Ontologier og taksonomier, 10-12.6 - Sjur?
- Nesna conference on sma education and research, especially language
- link? date? (moved: sometime in September)
- Maja could go there
- link? date? (moved: sometime in September)
Text to speech
To be started relatively soon. June?
TODO:
- discuss with Biret Ánne (Sjur, Trond)
MT and CAT
These are the next things forward. Two things to do before doing MT/CAT:
- Makefile redo
- xml transition of lexica
Corpus contracts + open source
The repository is properly closed/open now, and the availability of the source
TODO:
- announce the availability of our repository on relevant linguistic lists
Next meeting, closing
The next meeting is 11.5.2009, 9.30 Norwegian time.
The meeting was closed at 11: 28 .
Appendix - task lists for the next five days
Boerre
- improve XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Draw document
- Implement new version of giellatekno front page without ToC
-
gt/Makefile remake
- Set up the apache server for the risten.no beta on the linux box + Xserve.
- make Mac screencasts of using our tools. Suggestion: use
- fix bugs!
Ciprian
- try to make a schema/dtd description of the lexC-file (experiment with
- get informed about eXist and test the risten.no properly
- add an Oahpa clock excercise
- make-remake: analyse the structure/dependencies of the files
- restructure and clean the script catalogue, using subdirs
- check the processing of new corpus documents (error logging during conversion,
- make the pipeline of StarDict dictionary generation running on the Mac
- continue the search and testing of an appropriate tool for
- incorporate the passives into the last version of the sme: nob
- continue the work at the Kildin-Russian dictionary
- check the possible bug in the sma: nob-swe dictionary
- fix the bug with the string length in the popup window (sma: nob)
- fix bugs!
David
- continue gathering sma corpus texts
- contact the sami radio about older manuscrips after the election to the sami
- send contract to Anne-Grethe Bientie
- stay in contact with Š-blađđi about south saami texts
- work with derivations
- meeting to coordinate discussions with Pia Persson with Jovsset, Maja
- find adresses to the children of Ella Holm Bull
- talk to Lajla Mattsson Magga about the dictionary
Jovsset
- Find a suitable infrastructure for the distribution of the CD version.
- write formal letter to translator of Gåessie dah jeatjebh åerieminie
- Write installation instructions for word 2003
-
sma placenames in SGM document
- meeting to coordinate discussions with Pia Persson with David, Maja
Per-Eric
- Try to find more smj texts
- work with missing lists
- fix bugs!
Maja
- contact NRK Nord-Trøndelag about recordings in sma and broadcast
- more work on sma adjectives
- Send Lena Kappfjell and Harald Gaski a contract
- Need to start programming- fresh up/learn to program adjektives and verbs
Saara
- Include Vasta and Sahka in the log
- add new XSL/XML headers for proofing test docs
- Set up ways of adding meta-information for proofing correct corpus docs
Sjur
- restructure local setup using env variables and a script for automated setup
- package and deliver sma proofing tools (with Tomi)
- make XSL script to transform leaflet Forrest XDocs to an OOo Drawer document
- continue to write a proofing API & implementation specification
- name db/risten.no
- follow-up on some Polderland-related bugs: 621, 630, 652
- InDesign documentation
- Contact Davvi Girji about cooperation on electronic dictionaries
- subcontractor work for sma proofing tools
- support and maintenance contract for sme and smj, MS+Adobe tools
- Sámi languages as part of Norsk språkbank
- leaflet: add InDesign text
- set up risten.no on eXist/XServe (as a beta version site)
- set up required infra for smenob on risten.no/XServe
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- send list of hotel guests in Trondheim to the travel agency
- announce the availability of our repository on relevant linguistic lists
- fix bugs!
Thomas
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
-
sma adjectives
- finish reformulating the proper noun grammar like the verbs
- fix bugs!
Tomi
- package and deliver sma proofing tools (with Sjur)
- document how compounding is controlled in the PLX conversion
- fix double hyphen bugs
- fix PL hyphenator bugs
- fix PL and Hunspell conversion bugs
- infrastructure remake
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- fix bugs!
Trond
- Register oahpa.no
- Check for IP numbers in the log
- tts startup (with Sjur)
-
sma umlaut / derivation work
- fix bugs!.